Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to the Wedding CEO podcast, where we discuss all things marketing, sales and scaling so you can become the CEO of your life and business. I'm Elora Wachell and I've been a wedding photographer for over a decade and now I'm sharing all of my secrets so you can stop sacrificing your time and make more money like a CEO. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Wedding CEO podcast. I am so excited. I have a good friend on the podcast with me, Nathan Chansky. Actually, we did a swap the previous week and it was so fun. We talked about all the things. If you're listening, definitely check out that episode on his podcast. But we're just going to dive right in. Nathan, tell us all about how you became a wedding photographer and basically what you're doing now.

Speaker 2: 0:52

Absolutely so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. It was so fun doing the episode on my show. I just feel like it was definitely one of the more laid back and natural episodes, so I loved it.

Speaker 2: 1:04

But yes, I am a wedding photographer and I have been full-time as a wedding photographer for the past four years. I first got into that on a whim to be an entrepreneur, because I had gone the route of going to a college and going to try to make it in the corporate space, realizing that I really did not like that. I felt like I just didn't fit there, I didn't belong there and my ability to sell myself through a resume and cover letters and LinkedIn puke. It just was not giving for Nathan Chansky. I'm sorry, but it just wasn't. And so I decided that I need something different and I remember during that time it was actually living in Washington DC at that time, trying to hustle to make it into the corporate marketing space for politicians, oddly enough. I just remember seeing a lot of people on Instagram making their creative hustles, passions, a business and I was like I can do that, come on, now I could make that happen and I feel like I did a little bit of photography back when I was in high school. I took photos quote unquote for my friends who needed like senior pictures or something, edited those things in picnic, if you will ever recall and, yeah, it was a good time. So I was like I can do this.

Speaker 2: 2:31

So I really started getting into it back in oh, I don't even know when, that was but a while ago and then I went full time in. I believe it was 2019. And so then I went full time in 2019 because I had like a full year of weddings lined up for the following year. And then I remember 2020 was just like this year that I just felt things were not growing at the beginning of the year and then, like the pandemic just added grossness to all of that. And so it was within that time that I really learned business and was like, okay, I need to make a change here. I can't just be the creative, I have to actually make this work, you know. And so that's how I kind of like transformed everything. I just learned business inside and out.

Speaker 2: 3:18

And then it was, I think, the following year, in 2021, early 2021, I finally hit six figures and bookings and I was like, okay. So this is how you can actually live off of being the creative, instead of just having this like normal average salary. That was like not really getting by, and so from there I started teaching people what I knew and I started just making my way into yeah, just sharing what I knew, and then people started asking me for more of it. Then I started getting into a little bit of like okay, here's a paid product of like a thing that I use in my business, and it kind of turned into an education platform, actually sooner than I was expecting, and so that's kind of what I do now is like a combination of those two things.

Speaker 2: 4:05

It's interesting because now that I am in that place where I do both, it feels like one of them has to take the backseat, and so I'm realizing, like especially for next year, that client facing photography work is going to have to take the backseat. But I love what I do. I love coaching other photographers. It's probably the most passionate thing I have right now. Like, yeah, I just absolutely love it and I love seeing people transform their business based on the passionate thing that they do. So, yeah, that's a little bit about me, a little backstory, and yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:38

I love it. I love it because when you said picnic, I was like screaming but I have to mute myself because I'm so chatty. I'm really chatty, but yes, I used to literally take photos on my digital camera and then make everything black and white in that one thing color because picnic.

Speaker 2: 4:53

Totally brushing in the little like red on the girl's lips for sure.

Speaker 1: 4:59

You didn't live if you didn't do the spot color editing.

Speaker 2: 5:02

Yeah, exactly, it was a whole different time. Yes, it was a time.

Speaker 1: 5:08

Yes, I feel like a grandma when I even talk about all those things, but anyway, I remember you and clubhouse, okay.

Speaker 1: 5:16

Because I was very pregnant, it was the pandemic and my friend Molly was putting together these clubhouse chats and you were in like all the rooms and I'm like who is this guy? And he's talking about branding and photography and stuff and it was really interesting. And then I think we all taught. We went back and forth and taught one clubhouse thing before I gave birth to my son, because, yes, you go into labor while you're teaching people in clubhouse.

Speaker 1: 5:40

It's totally normal. So I just remember seeing that transformation I'm just like, oh my gosh, that did happen and it happened so fast. So that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 5:49

Yeah, it's crazy. It's so funny to look back in clubhouse and be like what happened to clubhouse? It was just like a really interesting time. I felt like it lasted for a solid two months or something Maybe it was, I don't know, maybe it was longer than that. It felt like it was like a two month stint and then people were like, but wait, what actually are we doing? It was a cool community building thing, I will say, but it definitely yeah, she fizzled. It was yeah.

Speaker 1: 6:16

It was a good time. It felt like almost a dream. It was like a came and it went. It was a very fast feud, but I think, because we had nothing else to do, we had no one to talk to, clubhouse felt like the answer. I was like, oh, I have virtual friends, exactly, let me do this or teach this. But then when things started opening up and it was like the same old, same old, we kind of were like yeah, we're like, okay, nevermind.

Speaker 1: 6:38

But honestly, I have my hot take a little bit about that when it comes to threads, because every once in a while people are like is anybody here? It's so true 70%, like they said, 70% of the people that signed up are literally gone. I might be one of those.

Speaker 2: 6:54

Really Okay. It's funny because I don't use threads as actively as like I want to, and I will say I love the idea of a word based platform like Twitter or threads or whatever Twitter calls itself right now. But yeah, I don't know, it's an interesting platform. I was going to say she's a diva, but threads is definitely like giving way too much masculine energy to be called a she. But yeah, it's interesting because I love the idea of words and like giving people little sound bites of information like that.

Speaker 2: 7:32

But it's hard to keep up with. It's hard to like open a new app every day when you're already going to a place like Instagram or like I'm more prone to go to TikTok than I am to threads, so but yeah, it's very interesting, like how many social media platforms come and go. I will say I do wish that the photography community or the creative community as a whole had a platform or something like that, like Clubhouse, to connect with people, because I think there was something like super wholesome about just having a bit of community that wasn't part of a program or like a course or something. It was just like organic and just meeting people, whether it was in your area or just in the photography space that you could just talk to you, because it's a lonely industry.

Speaker 1: 8:18

So somebody launched a Clubhouse copycat, I think or they were in the works and then it just never happened.

Speaker 2: 8:25

Yeah, probably. I don't even know what it would be, but I bet they did.

Speaker 1: 8:29

It was really lame. I think it was called like audio something, and I was like no, I think it's in my stories. I might like reshare it and be like no, y'all didn't like, y'all tried it. But yeah, I don't know, that is interesting, but you know what? And this is like so off track. But I feel like with social media and this can even just go into like branding is like you really have to keep up. You can't just launch one thing and be like I'm so good, I don't have to change. You do have to evolve. And as much as we complain about Instagram, they do launch new things all the time and Instagram is your status symbol. When I'm looking up a brand or a person, I don't go on Facebook. I don't really go on TikTok TikTok is for fun but I go on someone's Instagram.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because Instagram, I do think, feels like a resume in a sense, especially those who are in the digital entrepreneurship space.

Speaker 2: 9:17

I think it definitely feels like a place in which you're going to be showcasing who you are and the most like client facing part of what you do. And it is definitely its own version of I don't want to say LinkedIn, but like it's definitely like a more youthful, raw, authentic version of kind of like a LinkedIn where, for again, for certain spaces, for professionals, because it really showcases a lot of that stuff. Like, I mean, I even noticed I don't know if other people have noticed this but when I'm at weddings and I'm connecting with other vendors, people don't hand out their cards like nearly as much as they used to. People say, oh, what's your Instagram? That's the first thing that comes out of people's mouths, which I think is very, very interesting that it's kind of shifted that way. So, for better or for worse, I do think it is like a very important platform to be on and to make sure that you're maintaining a dimension of looking good, like good personal branding on there.

Speaker 1: 10:15

Yeah, and I was actually have a question for you based on that, because you mentioned TikTok too, so you were able to, like, really build your presence, your awareness, your platform. Was it on TikTok or was it Instagram reels, and what is your opinion on both that's?

Speaker 2: 10:29

a great question. So yeah, I actually started mainly on TikTok because I felt like I was at a place where I think a lot of people are, where you get in this rut of like a certain group of people who comment and like and maybe, if you're lucky, share your posts and even see your posts right, and a lot of those people are people that maybe you have a little bit too close of personal ties to to feel like you can really evolve as a creator and as a brand, right, and so for me I definitely felt the weight of that. I felt like every time I would post it was like okay, I know all the people I know like the top 50 people who are going to be seeing my posts like every single time, and I just felt so watched by people who were again like almost too close to me in my personal community and I didn't really want like all the chatter of what's Nate doing, like is this something new? Or like I've never seen him doing this before. You know what I mean. All that kind of stuff and a lot of that is like self-inflicted, like people might not have been saying all of that, but I just thought they were. But again, for whatever reason, I felt very watched. And so then I was like, well, I'm going to go on TikTok because I can get on TikTok and their algorithm is set up so that, even if you have zero followers or I will say, it was more like this back at the beginning of like 2021 or even into 2020, it was even better this way but even if you had zero followers, if you had the good content, people would see your stuff. You know what I'm saying? Like you could start with zero followers and create a thousand followers within like a week's time. Like that wasn't actually unheard of.

Speaker 2: 12:12

And so I just started posting stuff about hey, like this is what I know. Like I don't know everything, I'm not like the perfect person, like I don't have the perfect business or whatever, but like, hey, here's how to edit a photo and hey, here's how to like use your CRM for the first time, or here's how to take this photo in this type of lighting. You know what I'm saying. And so then I just like started posting those tips because I just felt passionate about like giving other people tips, and people were asking me those things in person anyways. And so I was like, well, hey, I can just share this.

Speaker 2: 12:42

And so, again, tiktok gave me that space to really create in a low stakes way, so that once I actually started getting traction and maybe even like self confidence, I was like, oh well, I wonder if I just try taking this type of a thing over to Instagram, where I already have, yes, sort of an audience and I don't know, like, if it worked on TikTok, maybe it'll work on Instagram.

Speaker 2: 13:05

And so that's kind of what I did is I just started posting on both, both Instagram and TikTok, and I would just post the stuff that I posted on TikTok to Instagram and I think, because TikTok was a lot more ahead of the curve, a lot of the content that I was posting on Instagram from TikTok it was able to gain some traction because people were probably like, oh, like, not many people post an Instagram like this, so it stands out a little more. So that way, I kind of see those two in that way. Whereas a lot of people it, tiktok is not a word of mouth based platform, it's a very anonymous presence type of platform, whereas Instagram, I think, is a lot more word of mouth and a lot of the people that you're connected with are from your personal local community and so there's a little bit more pressure there. So, yeah, that's kind of how I would like compare the two from that perspective and how I started into each.

Speaker 1: 13:57

Yeah, that's a really good answer, because I'm still wondering now, because I know back then TikTok was the place to be and nobody really knew what they were doing. So it was like if you launch something, your visibility would probably like explode. I mean, a thousand followers in a week is kind of insane for Instagram and I think somebody even said a hundred thousand followers on TikTok is like a thousand followers on Instagram because of how easy it was to get them. Is it okay? I was like is that true?

Speaker 2: 14:22

I mean it can be. I don't know if necessarily that means that the quality of the followers is equivalent to like a thousand on Instagram, but I do think that you can grow pretty quickly on like. Okay, if you have one viral video, you can grow pretty quick. I will say it's going to be slower growth than it was back in 2020 or 2021. It's not going to be as quick because the volume of users is just higher and so you're competing with other people for the eyeballs.

Speaker 2: 14:51

But at the end of the day, I do think the again algorithm on TikTok is more likely to put your in quotes, objectively good content out, whereas on Instagram I mean, you could have a really good content on Instagram and if you just happen to have like 500 followers, no one might see it, because Instagram really puts out your content based on how many followers you have, which is kind of sucky of them, but it just is what it is. So, yeah, that's, I think, a big distinction that people need to understand and that's why I say, hey, if you feel like you got good content and it's not hitting on Instagram, post it all on TikTok, like. You might just get better results there and it's just more low stakes anyway. So yeah, no it makes sense.

Speaker 1: 15:39

I mean, why not repurpose what you've already created?

Speaker 2: 15:43

I love repurposing anything Okay.

Speaker 1: 15:45

So a lot of people ask this question and I don't really have an answer for it. So I think you will, because of what you said about your visibility on Instagram being like close friends and family, and it was like hey there, Bill, how's it going?

Speaker 2: 15:58

What do you?

Speaker 1: 15:59

think it's like.

Speaker 2: 16:02

What do you think?

Speaker 1: 16:02

it's like. He's like, yeah, it's hitting, it's hitting. I started. What was it like Starting a business, knowing that people in your personal life are watching? How do you get past that mindset and just move forward? Like a lot of people don't start because they're like, oh, like all my friends are on my Instagram, do I start brand new or do I just keep going? Do I do this and I'm like, I don't know, because I started Instagram in 2009. And my stuff was way more embarrassing when I became a business profile, so curious.

Speaker 2: 16:33

For sure. Well, what I would say? It's hard because there's a short answer and then there's a long answer. My short answer is truly like get over it, honestly.

Speaker 2: 16:41

And that's like the quickest way I can help somebody, because that's what I would tell myself. I'd be like, nate, you are being a drama queen right now. Get over it. Whereas I think if I were giving you the longer answer and maybe like actually try to be helpful, my longer answer would be you have to really establish in your head what you are willing to do in order to pursue your goals and your dreams, and you also have to look at, like side by side If your goal is I want to make $10,000 per month, because that's what I think me and my family needs to like survive or whatever, then OK, so you look at that $10,000 and you want to get really specific and you know I make students of mine do this and I say what does that represent for you? Like that number that you wrote down, what does that represent? I want you to like actually spell out all the details of that.

Speaker 2: 17:41

Would you buy a house? Would you buy a car for your spouse? Would your spouse not have to work anymore? Would you be able to have kids and provide for them better? Would you be able to like send your child to? Like a school that you wanted to send them to? Are you able to get your kitchen remodeled, are you able to take an extra vacation and like, go to a place you've always wanted to go to, or whatever.

Speaker 2: 18:06

And so you list out all of these things and you look at the numbers of it and like, yes, this is what it would give me. And then you have to put up against that, like in a different column you write out like what is at stake. And then what you're going to write what's at stake here is that again, like Bill and like Linda and like Jesse, who was the bully in your high school, are going to like, quote unquote, think things of you and you're like all right, so are you willing to give up all that stuff in the first column because of all the stupid stuff that you put in the second column? Like, are you willing to actually give that up? And to me that's really what it came down to, because you can say to yourself like, oh well, no one really is thinking anything, but like, honestly, they might, they might be thinking stuff, and people might be like raising their eyebrows and talking about you at their like afternoon tea, and I've even heard some people.

Speaker 2: 19:06

It's hilarious where some people and this has never happened to me, probably for the best, but I've heard some people were like they will be showing up more in social media in just more of like a personal, authentic way, and then someone will respond to their story as if sending it to like a friend of theirs with like some sort of like mocking content of like I can't believe how cringe she is and then they'll send it to the person who made the content. And so the fact of the matter is is like sometimes people might be thinking crap about you and it happens, it really does. Like people are gross, people are mean. I feel like adulthood is just middle school all over again. In some senses we're just more like secretive about it.

Speaker 2: 19:50

But at the end of the day, you have to look at it and you're like okay, and like you know what I mean, like, so what? Like? Am I really gonna give up all that I think I can accomplish and all that I think I can actually reach and make and money, because there is the possibility that Joe Schmo might think something about me? And it's just like you gotta get down to that point where you're like no, it's not worth it, I can't afford quite literally to care what other people think. That's, honestly, my answer, and I know it's a little blunt, but it was Nathan spicy guys, that's why I call him Nate.

Speaker 1: 20:28

Now he's like he's not a Nathan.

Speaker 2: 20:31

He's like. He's like. Nate is like the alter ego.

Speaker 1: 20:34

Yes, but, like one thing that came up for me, it just sounds like, ultimately, yes, you might be dealing with all these like mindset things, but the question is what are you willing to sacrifice? Are you willing to sacrifice and that is about business Like, if you don't ever want to get uncomfortable, don't start a business.

Speaker 2: 20:55

We're constantly uncomfortable, yeah, it's kind of like one of those things where I've been thinking about this a lot lately as I am getting into. I have a coaching program and it's new to this year and I'm really kind of relaunching it at the end of this year as more of kind of like a group model and something that you probably have this too. But I think what's so interesting is that I always thought when I got into the education space I thought that like that's you, that the biggest fear of being a coach or an educator is like what if my coaching or education, just like straight up, doesn't work for people? And like what if it only worked for me? And whatever. And it's really interesting because now that I'm actually like in that space, that is not my fear at all.

Speaker 2: 21:46

My greatest fear is always without fail, what if they don't do what I tell them to do and they just don't do it? And I can't help them do it because they have just decided in their head that they're not willing to. That's always my greatest fear is that the student just doesn't do the work, because I think we have perpetuated this culture in our society of like you can just get rich quick and you can just like have incredible things happening with like the bare minimum result. Or my favorite is and this, I can't stand this culture of like, oh well, I asked how it's going for everybody else and the consensus I'm hearing is that everyone's struggling right now and like everybody's going through like a hard time right now, or like bookings are slow for everybody right now, and I'm like that is never, ever, ever, a basis for you to like benchmark your own results. Who cares what everyone else is doing?

Speaker 2: 22:47

The fact of the matter is is that most businesses don't even make it past year three like by a mile. Most businesses photographers barely ever make it to a hundred K, like the stats on that are actually sad in the amount of people that never get there. So the fact of the matter is is like you have to fundamentally stop looking at what everyone else is doing as a barometer, for if what you're doing is correct, you can't do that, you can't go down that route, because it's not necessarily what is going to get you success. So the fact I don't even know where I like started with this, but the whole fact is like listen, you got to be willing to put in the work and you got to be willing. You're laughing at me right now. You got to be willing to just do what it takes, not what everyone else does.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Yes, yes. No, that was good, we were talking about sacrifice. He just he went on a tangent, but I mean, I think we did on the other one too. It's Nate again.

Speaker 2: 23:49

We get all fired up.

Speaker 1: 23:50

I was looking at my Instagram and I posted a while ago that 86.3% of business owners I don't even know about wedding photographers make less than a hundred K. So I mean it's like to be the low price.

Speaker 2: 24:03

That is sobering 13%.

Speaker 1: 24:06

So 13.7% actually do make six figures, which to talk about your point is like who cares what they're doing? You know what to do, let's do it Right. I feel like, too, when you were talking about all the tea and people talking about you, and there was like a saying somebody said I never know who it is because I skim with it when I read but they're saying that when people talk behind your back, they're behind you for a reason. Keep going, right. And what I've noticed and let me know if this is the same for you, because I know your growth was extremely fast but if there were people that were kind of like, oh, what is he doing, whatever? And then eventually they end up bragging like, oh, I know this person, oh, I knew them in high school and they're like the meanest to you ever, like that.

Speaker 1: 24:49

That happens because the people that were talking behind your back, eventually they're going to be talking about you, right. So, yes, I mean in the words of Nate, get over it. But you're going to have to self-coach. You're going to be like is it worth it? Do you see what's on the other side? You can totally sacrifice feeling a little bad and just kind of get through it, so I like that and I just wanted to.

Speaker 2: 25:09

I totally agree. I've never heard that saying before and that is such an incredible saying. What I've actually noticed a lot of times with again people talking about you is, well, two things. Number one if ever you are in a situation where someone is talking bad about you, just know that they are in no way someone you should admire, because if they were, they would never talk bad about you.

Speaker 2: 25:36

If you've ever been in a situation where again you're pursuing something, let's bring it to a different metaphorical scenario. If you're working out and you're like I really want to tone my abs or something like that, and you go through the reps of getting there and just committing yourself to that, the fact of the matter is is, when one of your friends is maybe going through the same workout program or something like that, you're like come on, let's go, you got this, you can do this right. But if someone has never gone through that process, they're going to be the quickest ones to attack you, because it's usually, quite frankly, out of jealousy and just insecurity on their part that they would never be willing to do that themselves. And so, at the end of the day, you have to see that for what it is. It's not coming from a place, like you said, of being ahead of you or coming from a place of like, wow, like they have it all down and that's why they're mocking you.

Speaker 2: 26:35

No, it's coming from a place of insecurity. It's not a reflection of who you are and what you're doing. It's a reflection of where they are and who they are, because, again, no one ahead of you is going to mock you. People ahead are always like, hey, keep going, you're awesome. I remember when I was there, just keep staying the course. I'm saying well, I'd say mostly people ahead of you are going to give you that kick in the pants. Sometimes people ahead of you also will not root for you, and that's just part of the game too Tell the story.

Speaker 1: 27:09

What Tell the story Sounds like you have one.

Speaker 2: 27:14

No, we all have different stories. It's never one story, but, yes, definitely Sometimes you've got to stick it out, no matter what, no matter who's kind of getting under your skin.

Speaker 1: 27:25

Yeah, no, totally. And even to like your point when you were talking about the coaching fears and thinking about your student's success and oh, are they even going to listen? And then us being like what if they're not even going to get the result because they never do anything I had to learn I don't even tell my students in one of my training videos is like you are ultimately responsible for yourself, we are not responsible. You are responsible for your own result and that is an ultimate no-nonsense decision. You invested in this. I gave you everything. You have to apply it, which I feel like that's why we don't do free coaching. So if we did free stuff all the time, people are like, eh, I don't really have to, I don't have skin in the game and I had to learn to that. I can't save everybody, and that could be a whole mindset shift on its own Right. It's like you can save yourself, but can you really save everybody? I can try, but I probably can't.

Speaker 2: 28:14

Right, Because everybody, like you said and that it's interesting, you say that because I feel like I have some of this I do there's some of those same mindset shifts of oh, no one is responsible for the outcomes of the actions that I do or do not take except for me. Someone may think something, someone may have something to say, Someone may even be like, hey, are you sure you want to do this? And whatever, and give their doubts about what you're doing. But at the end of the day, no one has to live with what you decide or decide not to do, except for you. So make your decision based on what's right for you, not what they think is right for you. You know what I mean.

Speaker 1: 29:03

Yeah, I think honestly, maybe it could just be like a personality thing where it's like you want to save everybody, you want to be the everything to everyone, you want to be like you want to be a coach.

Speaker 2: 29:12

I feel like that's something we all have to just like go through, like I just want to save everybody, but yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1: 29:19

I'm going to label this episode coaching rants Back to the whole visibility marketing part. I do want to ask why did you choose video Interesting? That's a great question, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:34

Well, because what I saw in video was, first and foremost, something that I believe about marketing, which is go where no one else is going and no one else is willing to go, and you will have the greatest result in that space. We always think in terms of marketing well, I need to do what everyone else is doing, and if everyone else is posting a one by one on Instagram, then I need to be posting a one by one on Instagram with live, laugh, love is the caption. But the fact of the matter is is like if that is your plan, you will get the results that everyone else is getting and, as we know, everyone else gets mediocre results, if not horrible results. So that's what you will get, and not only that, but you will also be in a sea of the exact same type of content, in which case your content will not stand out. So the fact of the matter is, it's really best if you go into these spaces which, yes, have higher, maybe, risk, they have higher dimension of your commitment to be a part of them or to create in them, but, at the end of the day, because you went that extra mile that other people weren't willing to go to and you were willing to push past the like pain point that other people weren't willing to push past. Well, now you get to see the results that no one else gets to see because they weren't willing to go there.

Speaker 2: 31:03

So video is one of those spaces, especially during that time that I just saw so many photographers being so averse to of like I do not want to create reels, I do not want to create TikToks. It's funny to me now because I don't hear any of that anymore. I really don't. I think people have just like realized like video is not going anywhere and it's here to stay, and we got to like figure it out. But I do know that back in the day it was something that everyone was like very averse to, and so I was like all right, I'll do it. You know what I mean. Like I'll figure it out.

Speaker 2: 31:39

And I think also with video, a second thing that I saw, which was just a massive opportunity, was the opportunity for personal branding, which is I get to show people the me behind the experience instead of just my work, because everyone can take a good photo, everyone can put a preset on it, everyone can, you know, like deliver a good client experience with like all the fixings, but not everyone can be me and that can be my differentiating factor, so that when people reach out to me, oh it's Nate and nobody else can be Nate. And he has mannerisms and he has a way that he talks to people, he has a way that he makes some people feel he has like a humor about him, he has a character, he has like personality traits, like all these things that are not transferable to anybody else's business. And so I was like, okay, I'm gonna push into this instead of just like, oh, I have pretty work and I use like warm and filmy looking presets. And then what happened was is people started reaching out because of me instead of because of just my photos, and there was so much power in that. So that's really what I see in videos Again, like one no one's doing it.

Speaker 2: 32:50

Number two it just rocket launches your personal brand. Like I don't think anything else really can at the moment.

Speaker 1: 32:58

No, that's good, because I feel like photo and I feel this way and yet still I don't even post videos. So, like, don't even listen to me. But I'm like nodding my head, I'm like, yeah, I was one of those people. I was like I will not do reals, I will not jump in shoes. I mean, I might be I don't know sooner or later, but I noticed that, like photos, you cannot feel a personality from a photo.

Speaker 1: 33:18

When you see someone on video, you know you can like feel their vibe and then in person you really know who they are right, but I feel like video is the closest thing you're gonna get and this could be just me and I might be taking a huge left turn here, but, like, ever since the pandemic, isolation is my default, so like, if I get really overwhelmed, I just go home, I don't know. It's so weird and so having video and being able to see video feels like I'm in the presence of others, which I feel like is why we're even more on social media. All these relatable Instagram reels about life, family, home, decor I like have my that's my television. At this point, I'm watching real life things all the time. What are your thoughts on video now versus things? I know it's probably not as easy to go viral, but what would you think the future is for video? One of them you said was it's not going anywhere, right?

Speaker 2: 34:10

Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's going anywhere for the time being. I do think it's interesting because you have to kind of distinguish. So for me, like, if I'm talking about short form video right now, I do think that short form video has started to become what again? Things like Netflix or YouTube or Hulu or all these other spaces where people would like sit down and digest for maybe like 15 to 60 minutes at a time, whereas now people, we live in a busier society, kind of like by the day, and so people feel like they don't have to fully commit to a full 30 minutes of entertainment, to just open TikTok. And so that's why they're like, oh, I'm just going to open TikTok while I'm on my lunch break or while I'm waiting for someone in the car, or while I'm in like the Metro or like, dare I say, while I'm on the bathroom. You know what I'm saying. It's like people are just in that place where they're like it's a low stakes and low commitment form of entertainment. And so I do think people are at this place where they're spending more time in those types of short form places than they would be in, again, the longer format places.

Speaker 2: 35:34

But again, I still think there's a place for longer format, and so it's really interesting too, because I don't want to make this about like AI, but I do think AI will vary soon, and I would guess by like 2025, it's going to really make the short form video space eerie and like weird, because basically you'll be able to eventually just like create the type of content that otherwise would have only been able to have been created with like actual raw footage, and you'll be able to create that potentially with AI, which is like kind of weird.

Speaker 2: 36:13

I think it'll be interesting. I think that's probably the next big change on the horizon in the video space, but again, I do think, no matter what, it's going to continue to grow, because people love the idea of like motion picture rather than just like static images. But then to that piece. I also don't really think that images are going to go anywhere necessarily yet either, because there is also something that has so much depth and magic and nostalgia in just a still. So, yeah, I don't know. I don't know is my best answer, but those are some of my like predictions.

Speaker 1: 36:53

That is interesting. I forgot about AI. For some reason I'm so slow on the wagon Like chat. Gbt stresses me out. My husband loves it. Everyone's like oh, write me an email, do this, but every time I don't know. The language is a little quirky to me. I would never say this.

Speaker 2: 37:08

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1: 37:10

I mean I don't know. I know everyone's just like oh Lord, just hurry up and just get on the back. I'm like I can't, I just I don't know. And then like you can AI an existing photo and make it look exactly how you want. I saw that, where people are like yeah, I just take an iPhone photo and then do AI and you can be like in a business outfit and a different location. That part is stressing me out a little bit.

Speaker 2: 37:30

Those types of things aren't really that good yet, but they will get good and that's what I think kind of like freaky and even in the sense of where video goes with, just I don't know like creating music videos or creating deep fake stuff and like all that kind of stuff. It's like I haven't heard this is so random. But I just heard that meta is working on a way to basically give you like a social media avatar based on your facial features and all of that, so that basically you can like show up in your business without actually like being there, which is like that's scary, but I don't know where we're going with this.

Speaker 1: 38:12

Anyway, so after that spooky like story, this has to be published in October, then.

Speaker 2: 38:19

Yeah, exactly Halloween night, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 38:24

Getting serious. I think that's strange, and here's my question If we pass away, do we really pass away?

Speaker 2: 38:32

Yeah, exactly, it gets really, really that's terrifying to live on the internet forever. I have a friend who works in AI, and every time I have a conversation with him about it, I'm like okay, we need to stop talking about this because I can't, like I can't go this far.

Speaker 1: 38:47

Because the limit does not exist. I mean, I remember somebody interviewed Elon Musk about it and he's like no good can come of this. And I'm like, but didn't you create it? Like, sir, what do you mean? Yeah, are we in danger?

Speaker 2: 38:59

Yeah, it was gonna get created no matter what, so it's just like I don't know. It's interesting. Okay, I'm sorry, I just tried to sweep it under the rug a little bit, like I love certain aspects of it that make our lives easier, but I think when it gets into like creating people part, like fake people in videos or something like that, that's where I'm like okay, that's just gross.

Speaker 1: 39:25

Yeah, I try not to go down the rabbit hole of things because then I'll end up on the strange side of the internet and I just I can't, I can't. It's too much possibility for me. So if somebody wants to get started with video marketing, right, they're like okay, this all sounds great for Nate. I like I might call it great for Nate. What would be like three tips, or even like three pieces of content you would have them share to like get started or get comfortable with video. Like if you could just pick anything.

Speaker 2: 39:53

Totally Well, I'm going to make this very specific to a photographer and not just make it like for anybody. Of course that is most of your audience, you'd say, right?

Speaker 1: 40:01

They are wedding photographers.

Speaker 2: 40:02

yes, Okay, cool, cool, cool. I just want to make sure that you weren't like oh, it's actually graphic designers, which I'd be really surprised at, but you never know, really, hey, you never know. Okay, so, wedding photographers if you're a wedding photographer and you're like, what should I create? I think if I could give you three pieces of content that should be like your bread and butter for video. Number one you want to create portfolio content, right, so you want to create content that showcases the work that you have in your portfolio, the images. You're a photographer, right, so show people your images. I'm going to get really practical in a second. I'm just going to start with these three. So then, number two I think what you also want to create is something that is informational or educational for your target client, so something that gives them some sort of inspo or some sort of like I just shot a wedding with this and you should try this. Or, if you're struggling in this area, like you should try something like this. Or here's how you can avoid making this mistake while planning your wedding or taking photos, or something like that. And then the third bucket of types of content that you want to create, I believe, is content that entertains your audience and some people, I think, immediately go to oh well, I have to be this comedian in order to entertain my audience, and that's not true. You could post like a beautiful vibey B-roll video with like a beautiful caption on it. That was like inspiring for people. That is entertainment, right. You could hop on the latest voiceover trend right, that's like something that a lot of people try to do, and that's entertainment. You could tell a story about something funny that happened at a recent wedding of yours like not putting any people down, by the way, don't do that but some sort of funny story that happened and that is entertainment. You could have footage that maybe, like your second shooter took, of a funny first look that somebody did at the wedding you just shot and post that as entertainment, right, but something that again gets your ideal client entertained or amused by what you're putting out, right. So I think those are the three main buckets that I think are the best portfolio, educational, informational and then entertaining.

Speaker 2: 42:34

And what I really like to recommend to people especially is to actually overlap the portfolio with the educational or the portfolio with the entertaining, because a lot of times what we do is we think, oh well, if I just have a really pretty picture and I post it as a video like slideshow, that people are gonna like love it, no, that's not true, you gotta make people care. So the facts of the matter is like, if you say you're like, well, I wanna entertain them, so I'm gonna tell a funny story that happened at one of my recent weddings Great, well, while you're telling that story, maybe you could insert beautiful photos from that day, right, or maybe you could insert your portfolio into that. So you're kind of overlapping those two types of content to leverage the portfolio with the reach of the entertaining. Or maybe you have a situation where you wanna create an educational piece of content. Like I created one of these recently where I was like, hey, if you're a bride or a groom and you don't wanna do a first look before you get to the altar, that's okay.

Speaker 2: 43:36

Like I had a couple of mine this past year who did exactly that. They wanted to stay old fashioned, they wanted to do their altar first look and they did that and look at these beautiful photos of them like crying when they got there. It was so worth it to them and like I just absolutely love that experience. So again you're kind of overlapping the portfolio with maybe the more educational. So again, those are the three. There's others that I could probably give you, but I think those three are the ones that are the primary and overlap them, if you can, to kind of leverage again that reach of maybe something funny, entertaining or educational, while still slipping in your portfolio work there so that it gives you credibility, so that it gets people looking at your actual work.

Speaker 1: 44:24

No, I love that. I think those are really good stepping stones and I feel like you can really diversify your video marketing or your content with just those three pillars. So thank you for sharing that. That was gonna be super helpful for people who really just want to finally get started with video marketing, if they haven't already AKA, probably myself. But do you have any last words or any advice for anybody on all the topics? I don't even know. Pick one topic that we talked about. I guess it could be advice for anyone that just like wants to become a successful wedding photographer or somebody that wants to just get started in video, like what are your thoughts, your last words?

Speaker 2: 45:06

Totally yeah. So I'll go with kind of what we were talking about in the mindset stuff. I would just say my advice to you would be to go all in and don't let anybody or anything, or even yourself, get in the way of what you wanna do and what you believe in, because at the end of the day, you've gotta come down to that point where you're like this is what I'm going to create and this is what it's gonna produce if I actually create this, and that is my priority and I'm not gonna let anything else become like a pseudo priority instead of that, like no, this is the priority and everything else has to be just like water under the bridge behind that. It can't be something that stops me from where I wanna get to, and that's why I say go all in, be so all in on your business growth that nothing else gets in the way and nothing else, even like has that opportunity to get in the way. So when you do that, you can really do anything.

Speaker 1: 46:13

Yeah, I love that and I like your version. Like we have two different mindset. I feel like coaching strategies. You're like, just do it. And I'm like, yeah, we'll just like feel the feelings and then go through it and you'll be fine. You're like, just do it, just get started, You're welcome.

Speaker 2: 46:27

The learnings, you go as well.

Speaker 1: 46:30

Thank you so much for just being on the podcast and it was so much fun. We talked about so many things. I don't even know what to call this one, so it's gonna be fun, but where can everyone find you? Tell us a little bit about, like your Instagram, your website, your podcast, all the things?

Speaker 2: 46:47

Totally yeah. So I'd say the best place to find me and, like, get some good content from me is both my Instagram at Nathan Chansky and then my podcast, which is called Passion with Purpose. We talk a lot about how to make money, how to live your life, how to live to your full potential as a creative entrepreneur. So, yeah, like podcasts for something more long format and Instagram for something a little more short format and conversational, so yeah, I love it.

Speaker 1: 47:15

Thank you so much again, Nate. This was fun and I'm sure I'll probably see you later.

Speaker 2: 47:19

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: 47:28

Wait, don't go yet. Now, if you're ready to grow your photography business, I invite you to apply for the wedding CEO. The wedding CEO is my signature program for wedding photographers who are ready to scale their way to a hundred K. You're finally ready to work less, make more and live your dream life. If you've seen my Instagram, then you'll know we have students making five bigger months, launching their dream brands, doubling their prices, taking vacations and more. We teach marketing and sales, which are lifetime skills that you can take with you even if you decide to leave the industry. Accepted applicants will get an exclusive access to a private advanced training where I'm gonna show you exactly how easy it is to scale your way to a hundred K. And trust me, you don't wanna miss this Link in the show notes. I'll see you inside.