Alora: 0:06

I'm so excited for today's guest. We actually just recorded a podcast on hers. So definitely check that one out. But today Shayna is gonna walk us through how to infuse video with your photography services, what that looks like, and I'm just so excited to dive into all the things. So Shayna, please introduce yourself and tell us how you got into shooting video..

Shayna: 0:28

Hello all, Laura. All Laura and I are in love, so this is gonna be the best podcast episode of all time. My business partner, Devin and I are obsessed with her. We just. Got to chat, as Laura just said. So thank you for having me on. I'm so excited. Diving right in to how I got started with video is I was in college during the 2010s, which was when YouTube Travel diaries were really starting to blow up. We all know the era of like Utah moms in one pieces. Like posing in front of like blue water and like tiki huts. I really could stop consuming these travel diaries. I really loved the combination of conversational vlog, low quality video. And my favorites would intersperse that type of casual storytelling with more cinematic artistic shots. The only thing I wanted in the world was to be able to travel more. And I really connected to that type of content. I started vlogging myself. In those few years of college and I would just make the dumbest videos possible with my roommates. But the series that actually started my business was a play on those travel diaries that were so popular, and I called the Playlist Montana Diaries, which is now the name of my photo video business. Those videos ended up accidentally having great search engine optimization. So I was coming up in search for these different locations in Montana. These different hikes that I would do with my then boyfriend, now husband, and people started. Asking if I would shoot video for their outdoor brands and for their weddings. And the truth of the matter is there weren't a lot of videographers in my home state, Montana, in the USA at the time. And so I think these people were just like, I. This girl has a drone that's hired for our wedding and for our brands. And I just kept saying yes, I was young. My husband is now a teacher but didn't have his first teaching job yet. He is a student teaching, which if you're not familiar with the profession, is an unpaid intern semester long gig. And so I was waitressing and I was building this. Business in the most fraggle on brand wave for me, possible. I didn't even really know how to use a camera. But we persevere and we grow and we learn how to pay taxes. And here I am.

Alora: 3:00

I love it. my goodness. I didn't even know that you started off vlogging to photography.

Shayna: 3:04

Yeah. The market told me they didn't want me as their influencer, believe it or not. They were like, you can be behind the camera. You can film our weddings, but no one wants to see your face crying about your writing. Final Shayna.

Alora: 3:21

Stop. My gosh, you are so funny. I don't even know how I'm gonna get through this episode. Love that. So you started off vlogging. So you basically started off with video. Were you a videographer from the beginning and then infused photography?

Shayna: 3:35

Yes. So for the first two solid years of my business, I was a videographer. And then I started integrating photography just by saying yes, people had asked, I shot on auto, I had no business shooting people's weddings. But I really my frame of reference for quality wasn't really fair. I was dumb and happy and just kept saying yes. And I got better and better. And I, I really honestly felt comfortable hybrid shooting, especially with an assistant and came up with a method that really we still use today as far as storytelling and dividing work goes. And there's plenty of big projects that I still take on hybrid shooting, photo and video by myself. And so a couple more years into the story, the education part happened organically, which I think is the best way to start an education, where photographer friends would DM me and call me if they had my number. It's like rare for someone to have my number. I have such phone anxiety that if you have my number. I really would.

Alora: 4:40

I'll take it.

Shayna: 4:42

So people were asking, how the heck are you doing photo and video at the same time? And at this point, the pandemic was about to start. So I had the interest in teaching videography to my photography friends. I didn't really conceptualize that. The internet is for everyone in the world at the time. So it was more teaching locally was my first idea. That really you can keep things extremely simple and provide a beautiful product and a beautiful experience by stripping down the production and hybrid shooting photo video. And the idea was with the camera you already have and that you're taking photos with. And really to either upsell, really simple highlight films from that'cause I didn't feel comfortable promising a big production. And that evolved through the years. Later on as video on social media became more and more popular, upselling little clips to your branding clients TikTok clips for your senior clients. Really like this. Idea of scaling your business with video works in any niche, and it's not just if you want to sell video, you can scale your services using video because video content marketing is so prevalent right now.

Alora: 6:00

Yeah, I was gonna say, I remember saying a long time ago that video is the next big

Shayna: 6:04

Mm-hmm.

Alora: 6:05

here at this point. But you can feel people from a video, like you can see someone in a photo and you feel like you

Shayna: 6:11

Yeah.

Alora: 6:12

when you see them and feel their body language in a way it feels like that much more connected. So I have a question. Do you also dabble into the content? I know there's like wedding content creators too, like B-roll and all that stuff, or do you mostly focus on repurposing the video clips you have and just finding out ways to make that work?

Shayna: 6:30

Both, both. And I dabble a bit. this is so funny'cause we talked about my approach to this on the podcast episode, we just recorded. But I put content creation out there in my pricing guide and my thing Is I'm already comfortable hybrid shooting, like, let's start there. But my thing is, if someone wants to pay me a thousand bucks to take a bunch more iPhone video than I normally would, I'm not going to stop them from paying me more money. And so I added content creation to my pricing guide. last summer I had one bite and that experience showed me. I had a two person team that day. It was a very simple wedding though. I was able to output about 200 video clips from the day. The client loved it. There's no post-production for editing after. And that showed me that, like trained me to be more, cognizant during the day of taking the iPhone footage, and I feel very comfortable after that experience that if anyone else wanted to add on that service, I am. That's an easy yes. sometimes it's as easy as just having that test client to build the confidence to know if you can provide the hybrid service in the future.

Alora: 7:43

I have to say, Shana, I love your mindset around creating offers and just selling them and just being like. Whatever. So when you got started, I'm curious,'cause I am a pricing person you just start, did you just pick a number from the ether and then just scaled up from there? Or are you like a flat rate person with like multiple add-ons, custom proposals? I'm curious.

Shayna: 8:02

I've always been once again both, and I've always been a flat rate person. I grew up very, very poor. And so I remember this so clearly, I could not imagine ever charging over a thousand dollars for a wedding. especially when you're young, you get in this mindset of, I wouldn't buy this, so why would anyone buy this from me? Who would I be to sell something that I personally could not afford in quotation marks and would not buy? You know, so. Baby Shayna. I've been doing this the entirety in my adulthood. This has been like what I built in my twenties, baby Shayna, straight out of college, moving to the middle of nowhere to support her fiance. Very fancy. Through student teaching, I was like, nobody will ever spend more than a thousand dollars for a wedding video. Like that is an insane thing to think. And then the quantity. A little insane. I was, I also, it is this perfect storm of there was one or two great videographers in Montana at that time. One of them retired and then suddenly, like by default I was just getting all of this business, propelled into success because I was there and I had a drone.

Alora: 9:19

That's so cool.

Shayna: 9:20

I think, yeah,

Alora: 9:21

then.

Shayna: 9:22

I think quantity makes you better. Like any reps you're doing is going to make the, the talent will come. I don't believe in like automatic talent or like creative geniuses or anything. I believe in like creativity as a practice and the quality going up from there. And so I remember. Having hard conversations with photographers. Who I really loved working with, but they were raising their prices and their new clients weren't willing to take a chance on a cheap videographer. So then I had to raise my prices from there. And we're not talking crazy prices I was scared to get up to$2,000 and then I was scared to get up to 2,500 and then I was scared to get up to 3000, and then 3000 felt comfy for a while. And then, as we all know, the pandemic hit. And then suddenly those 40 weddings I had booked at$3,000 a pop were canceled, postponed, or needed a refund, and then it was time to change my life.

Alora: 10:25

Oh my goodness. Yeah I think our stories are very similar. It's like you propelled by default, I propelled from some feature

Shayna: 10:34

Mm-hmm.

Alora: 10:35

it was just like moving around it's like you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

Shayna: 10:38

Oh, yes,

Alora: 10:39

I don't even know what I'm doing. I'm just like doing something.

Shayna: 10:41

yes.

Alora: 10:42

With the pandemic, do you know offhand like how many weddings. Didn't reschedule.'cause I know people did intimate weddings too. Are they downsized? Did any of your people downsize and still get married anyway?

Shayna: 10:52

I think if we go back to that mindset, it's hard in retrospect, like some things seem appropriate, some things seem silly, you know, like we're so wise when we can look at the past. I was pregnant with my first child and at the beginning of that year I had to cancel on a lot of people I. Wasn't the best with saving money at the time. a lot of that money was spent. So then it was this crazy cycle of trying to book more work in order to pay back the people that I had to cancel on which was very, very stressful. Obviously, I think my husband made$29,000 that year. First year teachers, the pay is just insane. And so I felt a lot of shame and pressure that my business was failing. And then three months later everything just exploded, you know? I already had this pressure of, initiating cancellations because of my due date being in August, which is a crazy busy season where I live. feeling really down, sort of depressed and isolated about that, like I was failing. And then the world decided to push that lesson a little further for me. Which thank God, honestly. But at the time it didn't feel that way. I had so many postponements, which was great, but then it made upleveling in the next year's a little tricky. And then enough cancellations where I was legitimately afraid for my family that I was trying to grow. and then there's imposter syndrome with people wanting to learn this thing from me, right? This very tactical specific thing of adding video to your business. And I'm on these podcasts, the courses actually gaining crazy momentum. I don't know if you remember Clubhouse. things just happen for me. Like clubhouse happened at such a weirdly specific time in my business and life where I was like, my photo video business is actually kind of technically failing. From my perspective, that doesn't mean it was true. That's probably how everyone is feeling. But then this education, baby business thing that I'm doing is exploding. It's like, what is going on? People wanna learn from me and my business is failing.

Alora: 13:11

My gosh.'Cause you weren't you also pregnant or you just had your baby?

Shayna: 13:14

Pregnant. So I had her, yeah, August of 2020 masked. They weren't, my husband couldn't go to any appointments, obviously. I was told there was no vaccine yet at the time, and I was told that. If either of us tested positive going into labor, that they would isolate my baby and I wouldn't be allowed to breastfeed her. I was so stressed and felt the weddings that I kept because I did keep some weddings because we were desperate. We needed the money.

Alora: 13:45

Yeah.

Shayna: 13:45

The weddings that I kept the doctors were so mean about it. Like obviously we were in a pandemic. And I have so much empathy for how they were feeling and that perspective and respect for the people who were able to like stand firm and cancel their larger weddings. That wasn't my case. I kept the weddings that my clients ca

Alora: 14:08

Wow,

Shayna: 14:08

kept on knowing if I caught COVID, I was told they'd isolate my baby.

Alora: 14:13

that is

Shayna: 14:14

shocked. All Laura's jaw has dropped.

Alora: 14:17

pause. Can we get to the green room? What?

Shayna: 14:21

Yeah, it's really bad. It's like really, really bad. All.

Alora: 14:24

Oh my goodness. It's like very much that's so scary. Especially being pregnant. goodness. I have no words. So all of this is happening. I don't even understand like how you were still standing in the middle of this because was pregnant too, but I didn't give birth until 2021.

Shayna: 14:42

Yeah.

Alora: 14:43

were a little bit chill. I didn't have to deliver with a mask, but my husband wasn't even allowed in the hospital until

Shayna: 14:47

Yeah.

Alora: 14:48

tested negative, all that great stuff. But mean, just, I don't know. I in Detroit here, they really did follow the rules.

Shayna: 14:54

Yes.

Alora: 14:55

one minute, only, you can only have five people at the wedding. Okay. They made that work. One minute was 10 people, then it was like a hundred, but it has to be outside. And so all those other things, but wow. How did you push through? I don't, I literally have to ask like off record, like how were you able to push through all these things going on? The world is on fire. You're supporting your family. You're building a family, like physically,

Shayna: 15:17

you just do it. I don't, humor and levity is really important to me, obviously. I think that time felt so big and crazy and chaotic, and I had a lot of feelings of failure and a lot of feelings of being stuck. I always think that I process negative things in the best way, right? To me, like a lot of self-worth comes from just working really, really hard. And I think coming from an unstable family system and coming from near poverty, makes you tie a lot of work into labor, like labor equals money, you know? And so I really did get through it. Just working really, really hard and burying myself in that. I'm also like a really bad pregnant person. Like I was just legitimately ill, like actually physically ill and physically like broken for both of my pregnancies I gained. It kind of an insane amount of weight, and I still haven't, like, quote unquote, bounced back. My second kid is two years old and my body is fundamentally different from before I had kids which doesn't sound relevant, but just the way you move in the world. Is so different when you have that experience of it after having kids. So the how is that like I wasn't graceful about it or like great. Or any of that. Like the only way out is through like of anything. The only way out's through, you just do it. You live. That's life.

Alora: 16:54

Yeah, It's true. So all this happens. You're going through this. People are asking you about video and how you're doing it. I'm trying to figure out like when did the secret sauce hit for you, where you put this unique take on vlogs mixed with indie films and maybe started a trend on like a new video style versus oh, this is a videographer. They're gonna capture the day, they're gonna mic you, they're gonna this, that and the other. Your approach is different.

Shayna: 17:22

Mm-hmm.

Alora: 17:23

how did that just transcend into something that, blew up in that way?

Shayna: 17:27

It was such a perfect storm of the, my needs changed and my perspective changed from becoming a mother of, like, I very clear always on what I want, but at the time. I don't think where my business and life was going matched with my values and my perception of what I wanted in life. So that slowed down, that forced slow down of a pandemic and becoming a mother and really just in the education space, exposed me to a lot of different types of creatives, photographers, and videographers. Seeing how other people did their businesses and lives helped. I really connected. With some people in the industry, that really changed my perspective on what a business and life could be like, which I think really changed the game for me and, on a practical, tangible level, my, I knew having a baby, the support of my in-laws was gonna be really important. And they lived in northwest Montana, near Glacier National Park. And I was like, I've always loved the idea of being more of an elopement and a destination. Micro wedding photographer. Videographer. And this was my quote unquote excuse to go like completely rebrand toward this area so that my in-laws could spend more time with my baby. I'd have a place, a softer place to land, and I could build in a location where I knew we wanted to end up eventually. So it was really just reverse engineering that goal and having the forced space to do it. And I think like when you actually, I really, I'm not trying to be dramatic. I really did lose everything. It might not have looked like that from the outside, but like I was outta money. I was supplementing by substitute teaching at my husband's school for$75 a day. We weren't, it wasn't like emergency mode. We were both used to not living on much. But as I got more ambitious and more confident, I understood like I could build to more, and so I very intentionally started shooting in Northwest Montana and Glacier National Park and just constantly was talking about elopements and about just what I loved about them, you know, even without the experience of doing a lot of them. And then on another level to your question about style, is that I had the opportunity to shoot a wedding in Greece where I knew the couple having worked with them in the industry and a lot of the guests were industry friends as well, who became. Best friends after this experience. I think traveling with people and finding like travel compatibility, like helps you like know what that you love people. And this turned into a multi-day experience and some of my footage was so stupid. I think by now you like you could tell I really value storytelling and. I also value like levity and humor. I think that's such a big part of the human experience, and I just knew this group of people so well and I knew these clients so well that I think I was able to create something that felt more casual than like this hyper produced like slow motion, cheesy style of wedding videography that was really popular at the time that. Honestly, I wasn't technically sound enough to be that good at. I don't think my work was great yet because I was doing something that I didn't love, that I thought was kind of stupid and I just wasn't good at it. I don't have a passion for tech. So I've took a long time editing this multi-day destination film and keeping in a lot of like messier footage that normally I wouldn't. But since I knew this couple so well, I knew it would mean a lot to them to have this footage in, and so I created something. That like it, it felt painful almost to create because it was so new for me. And then once it was done and I got the couple's reaction, I realized like I've never been more proud of something that I made. And so from there it was over. Like I couldn't stop talking about like vlog style wedding film. And I'm sure I'm not the first. To put it that way. But I can tell you like, having that distinct voice and that distinct vision for what I wanted to create and just not shutting up about it it changed my brand completely and I was able to start creating work that really resonated with a certain type of person.

Alora: 21:56

Oh my gosh, I love it so much. And the fact that it was Grease, I need a link to that video. I need to see

Shayna: 22:01

Okay.

Alora: 22:01

just, even hearing you talk about it, I was like,

Shayna: 22:04

It's several years old at this point, so I don't know if I would be that proud to show you, but I'll send it to you.

Alora: 22:10

You're like, no, you'll never see it. It's really cool that you started off as a vlogger YouTuber, and then you fuse

Shayna: 22:17

Mm-hmm.

Alora: 22:18

something you were already passionate about, which is weddings. With the people that you loved and love each other. And so how did you come across that really? Did you just ask yourself like what is it that I want for myself if I was getting married? How did you come up with this style

Shayna: 22:32

You know, from that experience it evolved, right? And then I will say I actually don't consume wedding videos that often, and I really never have. I think it's easy to accidentally emulate people if you're consuming them too much. I'm gonna name drop this person. But I was really inspired by my friend, his name's Chris May. He owns good co studios. He's out of Oregon. he got into creating wedding films that really felt to me like indie films and while I'm not a person that's into producing a moment that much, or being hyper-technical on a wedding day or for any client project, even if it's branding. But I resonated with that style that felt very beautiful and artistic, but still free flowing and story-driven. And I was like, well, if that's what I love about his work, and there's really no other wedding videographer's work that I've connected with, like what makes mine different. And it's because it does just feel like a home video, like a vlog.

Alora: 23:32

I love that. Oh, I love storytelling and documentary.

Shayna: 23:35

Mm-hmm.

Alora: 23:36

Authentic, whatever. Just, ugh,

Shayna: 23:38

You mentioned that, earlier today, you did mention to my partner, Devin and I, you came into a style that was Editorial meets documentary. So you can resonate with the fusion of these two styles and how. the editorial part does feel very intentional and artistic and like you're producing. But when you mix it in with a documentary, like that's where the heart comes back, you know, that's what feels like the client.

Alora: 24:04

Yeah, and it just, it feels nostalgic.

Shayna: 24:07

Yeah.

Alora: 24:07

feels real, like a moment that actually happened in time versus something that was like posed,

Shayna: 24:12

Yeah.

Alora: 24:13

I'm so turned off from everything being 100% perfect. I am so against perfection. I literally steer the opposite. I'm looking for imperfection all the time. Maybe it's framed perfectly, but the moment itself is

Shayna: 24:26

Mm.

Alora: 24:27

Real. And I feel like deep down inside, all of us really do crave that

Shayna: 24:31

Yeah.

Alora: 24:32

how humans connect. Like humans tell a story and we will resonate with it and we will feel like we are connected. And I feel like video does that. Photography does that. It's all through connection. It's all through imperfect moments and just, yeah, I love that you were able to come into your own, come up with this style and boom, now you teach it. So for somebody that's getting started in video. is wondering like, I'm a photographer, how am I gonna be able to fuse like video and photography? I'm already focused on that. How would they even get started with something like this?

Shayna: 25:05

You know, I think it's tempting when you're learning a new creative skill to think that the thing you're missing is technical knowledge, right? And to over consume like YouTube bros techie videos about how to do this thing perfectly. To your point, that word perfect is coming up again. I think a reframe could come back to storytelling, like the function of what each shot does is more important. Then if you know the exact right frame rate or the exact right shutter speed that your camera should be on, any barrier that's keeping someone from practicing, if it's on the technical side, I wanna be your permission slip right now to just let it go and to let you practice. And then the next objection I hear from photographers is that when they're shooting, they're. Feeling so focused on the shots they should be getting for photography that they feel like they would give a lesser experience and a lesser product to their couples or to their clients. Any niche of photography by trying to hybrid shoot and add on. Another thing with video, I. And I hear you. I see you if that is what you're thinking right now. But what I would gently challenge you on is that first question, is it possible that you're overshooting sometimes at your client shoots? Is it possible that you get a little trigger happy sometimes, and you come out with 20. Frames of the same moment. Is it possible that if you could slow down and trust yourself a little more with your framing and composition with your photography, that you could take that same amount of time that you were just holding down that shutter button and getting 30 frames that are basically the same image that you could use that time to toggle over to photography? Take that deep breath and let yourself record for five seconds and then switch back over to photography. When we're talking about hybrid shooting, it's not getting everything perfect and every single moment in both photo and video. It's also a gentle push and pull of understanding. The function, photo in that moment, and the function of video. If you are in a moment at a client shoot that's very pose heavy, it's possible that those shots wouldn't end up in a video anyway, so you don't need to be stressing about toggling back and forth. But if they're in between moments, whether that's between poses or between locations on a shoot. That you could take a photo really quick if you like, the candid approach, and then have some patience with the moment and honoring it and switch over to video. to train yourself to not feel compelled to fill every moment of silence with you talking or with you running up to your client and judging them. If you could give them some space, could you consider that you have the time to switch over to video and get that moment? And not to turn this into the Shane and Lloyd Power Hour because I wanna get to any questions you have, Laura. But the last thing I'd consider is if you're thinking about adding in some hybrid shooting to your approach, just to see if it's possible, not even to upsell yet, just to see if you can do this thing. If we're going back to thinking of the function of each shot, what shots, like, what combination of frames and shots would it take to tell a story? And for me, in each scene that comes down to five types of shots, which is not a big deal. Five seconds for five types of shots. So as photographers there, I think there are things you understand on a subconscious level that even if you're not a freaking nerd, you would understand if you like actually thought about it. Right? So when we have those super wide shots, right? What is the function of a wide shot? It's to tell the viewer information about the space that we're in, right? So you see a wide shot. There's so much information we're getting about time and place meaning location and climate, right? So we're answering so many questions about setting itself. And then if we're honing in. On a long shot, or you can think about these shots as your subject inside the space that you just established. Those are other questions we're answering, like we're introducing the subject and showing that they're occupying the space that you just established in that wide shot. Then if you hone in even more. On a closeup or can we combine this with extreme closeup, right? We're answering questions about the subject themself, so we're starting to see facial expressions. We're starting to see if you, if we are doing a couple shoot or a wedding, we're seeing how these two subjects interact with each other, like small laughs, small touches, and then we go even closer, right? Going into details. What's a detail in this case about the subject? So. Hands, if a hand is lightly caressing someone's neck, or if we honing in on eyes or like a tear coming out of an eye or something as simple as someone fiddling with their hair, that's a nervous habit I have. Or. Anything else that's gonna give us more information about this subject in those really honed in detail shots. And then we have B-roll, which is similar to details, but it's the question B-roll is answering could be what is the subject Seeing that isn't necessarily in the frame. So if we just distill it down to these five storytelling shots, and we know if we get each one of these, you have a passable video that's going to tell a really complete beautiful story, really dynamic story for your clients. And the same is true for photo and video, in my opinion, that if you can have a dynamic. Set of these five shots, you've told a really beautiful complete story. And if we're thinking about it in this way and not so much the frenzy of being trigger happy and having to like randomly spray all over the scene, like deliver the most amount of quantity possible. If we can really scale back into this storytelling mindset and answer these questions in both photo, prioritizing photos, that's probably what you're getting paid more for if you're trying to add video. But then taking the space to try to add in those video shots to answer all those questions with the five shots, I think this becomes very doable.

Alora: 31:41

That is so beautiful. Not only was it step by step, they can go out and do this now, but I could just feel like what the video would look like from those different perspectives, especially because we always talk about starting wide and

Shayna: 31:54

Yeah.

Alora: 31:54

zooming up close and just like being caught up in the moment.

Shayna: 31:59

Yeah.

Alora: 32:00

the couple, and I love that you said to stop talking for just one second because we're such yappers, like why are we talking so much? They don't need to be coached at one point. Sometimes they do get lost in each other and it's your job to be able to read the room and be like, wait, let me just capture now. Like now I can just do my storytelling job. I love that. I love just like how that was so pieced together beautifully. So in terms of delivering like a highlight video, like what is this called anyway, what is this video called essentially?

Shayna: 32:31

Whenever you want. I think we have a responsibility as business owners to define deliverables, right? Like you can't ask someone to pay for something if you're not very clear about what it is they're getting. So if you're saying a highlight film in this like baby stage to me. What you need to be clear about is what you can reasonably deliver from hybrid shooting. And when I'm teaching my students at the beginning I would recommend being clear. If that includes audio or not. For many of my students, it does not include audio. You're basically promising a glorified slideshow because that's what you can deliver in these stages. Right. Does it include time sensitive moments? I would hope not if you're in this baby practicing stage. And to me, the wedding photographer example is, are you promising? The reaction at a first look, probably not. I think you should prioritize photos, but you can surprise and delight with the immediate aftermath that kiss or hug or however your couple interacts with each other in that in-between moment as you get practicing. Can you promise a first look? Unless you're comfortable and crazy like me and you're like double fisting cameras during a first kiss at a ceremony, I think you probably shouldn't be promising that in this little highlight film. So really it's just being realistic with yourself and your shooting style and your personality, and very overly clear with your client that you're upselling to about what this highlight film will contain.

Alora: 34:05

Oh my goodness. Yeah, everything you're talking about, I can picture it like you're such a visual speaker. I just, I love,

Shayna: 34:12

Oh my gosh. Thank you.

Alora: 34:13

you're welcome. So basically, yeah, you come up with the name for this like mini video montage, which sounds basically like the perfect. Mix of in-between moments or after moments, like once you've got that money shot being like, okay, switch to video. Like I love that approach. That way nothing is missed

Shayna: 34:33

Yeah.

Alora: 34:33

much like feeling without having to lose like the anticipation of the must have shot. So I do think that's amazing. Okay, so if people want to learn about having a vlog like approach adding video to their photography packages. What would

Shayna: 34:50

Amen.

Alora: 34:50

people be able to raise their prices significantly for this? Is this a signature service or is it like an add-on? I'm curious.

Shayna: 34:58

Oh my gosh. I love money and talking about money, so the thing is like, what's your personality, what's your goal with this? one of my star students is my beautiful, perfect business partner. She was a videography for photographers. Student way back when, and what she did was she was like, okay, this is great, but I actually don't love digital video. I'm gonna add super eight video to my business. And that was great. but a side effect. was, she was able to leverage that as an add-on to book higher ticket clients for photography. And what I mean by that is when you start to add services that are attractive to your potential clients who really resonate with you then they will see. The overarching value in what you do and be willing to spend more money. So we can think about video as an add-on. I think it's a beautiful add-on, but a side effect of being a service provider that is able to provide multiple things and be one point of contact for people. Like that's kind of a key, is that people will find you and your service so valuable that you'll be able to charge more. Period. I can't tell you how many times, my clients have told me that it was kind of a toss up photography wise between me and another service, but they love so much that my team was able to provide both photo and video that they went with me and I might be more expensive than that other person.

Alora: 36:29

So do you feel like now that couples are. Wanting to just build trust with a one-stop shop service versus having to go through the whole booking process with adding video, even though they want video. Do you feel like this is the direction that the industry is going in?

Shayna: 36:45

I always hesitate to make absolute statements. You know, I think for my client's personalities, it is a benefit to not have to email more people than necessary. I will say that, and I think there's also an added benefit for a certain type of client that values. Art specifically in storytelling, it's kind of nice for them to see a similar storytelling approach with their photos and their videos. When I contracted for video only all the time. So it is always interesting to me when people hire a photographer that's very, very warm. Because my work tends toward warm, but it's more true to color, a little bit warm, kind of grainy. Like very specific greens, like my greens are very warm. It just, it interests me when. A couple hires a photographer that's so opposite from me. And I'm always like, interesting because my clients who hire me for photo video really value that their photos and videos match. Or if a photographer is very posed, but they hire me for video, like I'm never super happy with the video that comes out with that day. And I'm like, it's interesting that this client resonated with my video work, not understanding that the entire day has to. Be a little looser and less posed in order for video to end up looking like that.

Alora: 38:10

So it's almost like you have to brief them on your style and approach and figure out whether or not style's gonna kinda mesh.

Shayna: 38:18

Maybe, I think it's not as cut and dry as that. Like sometimes we think about explaining our style and educating our clients as being like this direct conversation to me, it's everywhere you show up online, like every single thing you say and how you act should line up with what their experience will be like. the moment I realized I needed to be Funnier and messier online. Was the day where my clients were more fun, you know? As a videographer, I probably could do better when I'm getting hired to specifically say like, oh, that photographer you hired, like, we're gonna have a weird day. But I just also don't really care that much. Like, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm gonna make it great for my clients. When it comes to adding video, I think where it gets a little dicey and scary is as a photographer, you're thinking that like. I have this thing I wanna make and my taste is so great, right? I'm an artist. I understand what I want these videos to look like and this experience I wanna provide, but I don't think I can make this look as good as it looks in my head. Freaking welcome to create a business. Like that's how you were with photography too. Like get outta here your first year of being a wedding photographer. If you're looking back at those weddings, like, would you be proud to like show that work today? Laura says, no, she's shaking her head. She says no.

Alora: 39:45

no,

Shayna: 39:45

So. You need. Yeah, it's all practice. And your responsibility as a service provider and a business owner is to, you do need to practice at least a little, so like create, if you feel more comfortable not charging in this practice phase, create like three to five videos somehow that you can show as portfolio and then your only responsibility from there. Is to provide a final product that matches or exceeds, it can match. That's fine. It's not always going to exceed the level of quality of the portfolio that you showed when that client hired you. Okay, so if you're making a couple practice videos, your clients see those and they like them enough. That's your confidence booster. They like them enough to buy that upsell that you're offering. You're good. Just provide the same level of quality as you showed them, but that's your only job. You've got this.

Alora: 40:41

Yeah. I love that you literally just get to work. You're like, just do

Shayna: 40:46

just do it. Just literally, what's your other option? What's your other option? Being a consumer for even longer, wanting to do this thing and just consuming, consuming, consuming and wasting time, like thinking by osmosis that you're gonna reach the level of perfection that you want. That's stupid. Don't do that. If you're listening to this, don't do that. Just start doing it. And if it's a bad video that you create in this practice phase you don't have to hire you, but the client that sees that practice video and likes it just blow their minds with how great the next one's going to be. Because you've gotta practice in order to reach the level of quality that you're wanting. You have to practice to find your style. And to be completely honest though. This is also extreme because if you're listening to this at this point, you are already an established wedding photographer. You're consuming content from Allura, trying to scale beyond six figures. You understand the technicalities and the storytelling and your style behind your wedding photography. So adding video, I promise, is not going to be. As difficult as those beginning phases of your photography business, this is just expanding your creative skillset and it's adding something new, which even though it will be difficult, it's going to be really fun and great. You've got it. I also, I'm like, I'm literally an idiot and I did it so you can do it.

Alora: 42:14

I could do it.

Shayna: 42:14

Yes.

Alora: 42:15

Shayna. This was so good, um, the listeners about your video program and then also where they can connect with you and find you.

Shayna: 42:27

Thank you so much. I am obsessed with you. I think that's why it worked so well, because I really like you. I love anyone that I can make laugh. Half the population I really freak out. And then sometimes there's some people that just get me. So this is great. ALO, you're so sweet and smart and generous with your time and talented. I have a business with my partner, student turned partner. Devin, we have a podcast called Hey Thriver, and our business is the same@heythriver.com. I teach a course called Videography for Photographers, which you can find in our shop. We also have a ton of free resources in there. Devin teaches Super eight for photographers, which any like point and shoot video add on you wanna add? we can get you there. especially with how trendy like hybrid shooting with film is these days and like hybrid shooting content with your iPhone. I think there's a larger tolerance in the industry for being able to code switch with point and shoot video offers, whether that's your iPhone or Camcorder or Super eight there's so much opportunity out there. You just have to be curious enough and, messy enough to just practice. And it's going to end up being great. If you don't want to buy anything from us and just follow us at hey, thriver and hang out with us, DM us we're around all Laura and I hope you'll be one of those dms because we love you.

Alora: 43:55

Stop. I'll be in there. Sign me up. Oh my gosh. This was so fun and funny. I've been laughing all day. Literally, this double podcast has taken me out.

Shayna: 44:05

No, you have to listen to Laura's episode. It's the Hey Thriver podcast.

Alora: 44:10

Yes, it'll be in the shoutouts sure. thank you so much. This was great and everybody else, we will see you next week. Definitely connect with Shayna. She is hilarious, but also I personally think that this is the direction that couples are going. I'm hearing a lot of like inquiry ghosting because of the lack of video and photo. And so I will say it, I will stand on the hill that I think this is a skill that you will need to add. For sure to your roster. So anyway, I'll see you guys next week. Bye.

Shayna: 44:40

Bye.