Alora 0:00

Hello and welcome back to the Often Ambitious podcast. I'm so excited I have, I say that all the time, but I really am excited with every special guest that I have. Heather Gagnan creative, and she's gonna be talking about websites and marketing and what attracts luxury buyers, which is really up my alley because everything we do here is luxury and high end and attracting premium clients. Not budget couples and price shoppers. So Heather, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you.

Heather Gagnon 0:30

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to

Alora 0:32

Yeah, I'm so glad you reached out on Threads. Also, can we talk about how much we love threads? That was such an easy connect oh, you wanna be on here's the link. Love this topic.

Heather Gagnon 0:40

It is

Alora 0:41

So walk me through then what your entrepreneurship journey looks like, were you always a website designer? Did you go to school for that? Like how did you get into this field specifically?

Heather Gagnon 0:51

Yeah, so I actually started out in the wedding industry. I was a wedding

Alora 0:55

Oh,

Heather Gagnon 0:55

And probably started very similar to most photographers, right? Like it's a hobby, it's like a creative outlet, and then it like slowly turns into an obsession and kind of takes over your life. And then eventually it's okay,

Alora 1:07

just gonna charge for this now.

Heather Gagnon 1:09

Yeah, it's time and I love the wedding industry. Like obviously it's so joyful you get to celebrate love stories. Just feels like an honor to be a part of that. I love that it's women led and like very serving oriented and just. Everyone there the good ones, right? Go above and beyond to make sure they're doing everything in their power to make sure their couples are making like the best memories, having the best day. And along the way, I was realizing the most talented people in the wedding industry are not always the most successful businesses. You have this creative brain that helps you create this incredible work and photographers see the world in this unique way, and they're bringing it out in their images. You're delivering an amazing client experience, but that doesn't always mean that you're booked out at the level you want to. There's like a disconnect between the creative side and the marketing side, and. just does not feel fair to me, right? If you're amazing at what you do, you should be able to be getting found by your dream clients booking weddings you're excited about and charging a price that feels good to you. And that's really what drew me to web design I get to help wedding professionals get recognized for how talented they are and start attracting high-end clients that they've been dreaming of working with. And I love to do

Alora 2:28

I love that. So how were you able to crack the luxury code? Because I know so many designers and they just, oh, tailor it to the client. Their dream couple and so on, but I don't think I've ever ran into a specific website designer that is this is to attract premium clients. Like what is the difference?

Heather Gagnon 2:49

Yeah, so one thing I really focus on in my web design is like starting with strategy. So a lot of times people think about I need an amazing website. I need a really impressive website. I'm gonna look through these templates and find like the best one with all these like moving elements and all these things. And. Yeah. they are cool, and that might help. But really where we wanna start is not with the aesthetics. By the way, that's also such a hard thing for photographers specifically, right? Because that's

Alora 3:20

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 3:21

it's about the images. And you wanna just fall back on if I do beautiful work. are gonna come and book me. But really with strategy, it's about starting with your business goals. so I always start with, okay, let's not even talk about the website, right? Like, where do you want your business to be? Why do you want a new website? Do you want more inquiries? Do you wanna raise your prices? Do you wanna reach a different kind of client? then those kind of questions are gonna get us started on what's the end goal so that we can start with that in mind,

Alora 3:58

Oh, I love that. That's my bread and butter. Everything is what's your five year goal, your 10 year goal? What's your six month goal? How can we get there? And in a way it's like you're envisioning the wealthy version of like your brand and just like going from there. You have 10 years of experience from wedding industry to web design. When did you realize that most photographer websites were leaving money on the table?

Heather Gagnon 4:24

Yeah, it was along journey of just like more I was in the industry, the more I was talking to people and just hearing about their struggles and just seeing. Like the super, super talented people, and then you you think they're really successful and they're struggling but I am either not booking as many clients as they want, or they're filling their calendar, but they're hitting that 30, 35 weddings, it's just getting to be too much. and they're trying to figure out how to get to that next spot. So that's where kind of the website design comes in. Just wanting to help them on the marketing side and really come alongside them, reach those goals.

Alora 5:03

so do you do like a website audit before you go along this process then? Because I, in the way of having to do it to attract premium clients. Your web design process probably has to be a little bit more detailed and a little bit more specific. Do you point out, Hey, this is what's not working, this is why you're attracting this, and then this is how we can help you?

Heather Gagnon 5:24

Yeah, totally. So as part of my process at the beginning, I will get into your website analytics. I'm gonna be looking at like, how is your website being used now? Are you getting traffic? Who's coming to your website? Like, where are they coming from? What are they doing on your website? What pages are they going to? Kind of, what's the flow where are they getting tripped up? Where are they, clicking off, like all that kind of stuff. And then that allows me to see like there are gaps and opportunities to come in

Alora 5:54

Oh, I love.

Heather Gagnon 5:55

through a better

Alora 5:56

Yeah, I'm, I've always said that a website has to be strategic. Like I taught this back in 2020, about like the flow that the client goes through, the pages, clicks, the buttons, like that's all in your control 'cause you own your website. But what would you say is the biggest issue with people? What would you say is the biggest issue with wedding photographers or wedding pros now that is keeping them from attracting those high-end clients? Could you give us instances you could just clock it if you looked at somebody's website today.

Heather Gagnon 6:26

So some of the big problems I see, first of all, like I feel like it's kind of cliche to say it this way, but like honestly, if you don't have a good homepage that hooks them right away, like none of the

Alora 6:37

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 6:38

matters, right? They're not going anywhere else. So definitely like the second you land on the homepage, it has to, get in like the who you are, what you do, why, what makes you different, right? Like your value prop right there with the visuals that back that up. and your homepage is just like a vibe For what you're about and what makes you different. So definitely that. One thing that, and I feel like that's talked about a lot. One thing that is less talked about, a strategy opportunity that I see missed is like in your portfolio. so a lot of times photographers, like obviously you wanna share your portfolio and you might just have links to different galleries, But know, you're probably sharing lots of images and that's a great starting point. It's a missed opportunity if, you don't know how long you're gonna have someone's attention. But you wanna use every page as strategically as possible so that you don't want them to drop off, right? Let's put it this way, instead of having a huge gallery, like what if you're really intentional with that? What if you chose set of images that tell the story of their day? What if you included a testimonial What if you highlighted something like a publication or a feature, and then you end with a call to action to reach out to talk about wedding photography for your beautiful day? So now it's not just a page of pretty images, it's like a very strategic. Hey, this is the work I do and this is my style. And also my client loved it for these reasons. And also it's recognized and we've been featured you want this too,

Alora 8:16

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 8:16

So here's how you can have it. And also just like that really comes into guiding

Alora 8:22

Mm-hmm.

Heather Gagnon 8:23

And making it really easy. I dunno about you, but I'm a mom and I like have to make millions of

Alora 8:30

Mm-hmm.

Heather Gagnon 8:31

Every day. And I'm so over it. And so if I am like jumping on someone's website, like I just want you to tell me

Alora 8:39

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 8:40

right? Like they're there because they're interested. So you just need

Alora 8:42

Hmm.

Heather Gagnon 8:43

Them. and that in general is a huge website problem too. Pages that just it's a dead end. We wanna create the flow. We wanna decide like, how we want them to move through your website. do they need to know in order to make a decision and to feel really confident or trust you, and feel confident about reaching out.

Alora 9:01

This is so good, Heather. Oh my gosh. I was like trying to like not reach. Across the screen because Was that the blog page or the portfolio page that you were talking about where they need to have their best images, A testimonial, a call to action publication link. Like which page is that? 'cause that blew my mind.

Heather Gagnon 9:18

Yes. Okay. So I am talking about the portfolio page, but actually I do get like a lot of confusion about

Alora 9:26

yeah.

Heather Gagnon 9:26

Do I need a blog? Do I need a

Alora 9:28

Mm-hmm.

Heather Gagnon 9:29

What's the difference? Aren't they just the same thing? so yes, you definitely always need a portfolio. So I wanna see a portfolio on your website. I want you to be linking to six to nine galleries, I

Alora 9:41

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 9:41

is good to show your best work, your most representative work. Like these are the weddings that you want. single potential client to be And like Off, right? This is my best work. And so that is on your portfolio. Your blog though is like. It's just like your recent work and maybe you have some helpful things, tips, inspiration, whatever along in there. But like you don't wanna risk potential clients. If you only have a blog for example, and you don't have a portfolio where you've set, this is my best work, you're just like hoping that your clients are seeing your best work and finding it in the midst of all this other stuff. so definitely not. So yes, you have to have a portfolio. can have a blog. I encourage it, it helps, right? But that's more optional.

Alora 10:29

That's very interesting. I have never really understood. A really good differentiation between portfolio and blog because usually the portfolio links to the blog and that's how the wedding industry has done it. I think from all the website reviews I have done, it's oh, just list a, you know, link by this good portfolio that I liked, but having a more of a strategy, which. I'm a strategy girly. It's my, it's what I love. And we have this concept that I teach about best of images, right? Your best, weddings, your best. This ranked from all time, this is who you want to attract every single time. So having that conscious decision of creating a portfolio page of the best weddings you've ever done, and then having a mini sales page effect to be like, oh, you like this? Reach out. And then the blog is like the recent wedding that I did that was aligned. I love that. I hope everybody is taking notes if they're not driving and being like, I need to really give my portfolio page some love or even create one. 'cause half the time people don't have one. They're like, ah, I don't need one. That's fine. No, thanks for me.

Heather Gagnon 11:28

Yeah, there's enough images like sprinkled

Alora 11:30

Sure.

Heather Gagnon 11:30

website. They can get a

Alora 11:31

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 11:32

If you wanna charge the big bucks, right? Like confidence. It's

Alora 11:36

Oh, speaking my language.

Heather Gagnon 11:38

You don't wanna leave any doubt in your potential minds, right?

Alora 11:42

Yeah,

Heather Gagnon 11:43

Yeah.

Alora 11:43

there was something you said, earlier about how just raising your prices doesn't just give you high-end weddings, and I teach raising your prices. But I do know that is one of the many steps that it takes. Of course, you raise your price, you have to make a ton of changes, but how does that translate to the website specifically? 'cause I'm gonna assume the website is the answer.

Heather Gagnon 12:05

Yeah, everyone wants to raise their prices, right? But you can't just double your

Alora 12:08

Mm-hmm.

Heather Gagnon 12:09

You're moving into a new market. There's different couples there. They have different expectations, and just need to build like a different level of trust at that higher. Price point and removed out, like I've been saying. So one thing is just like a consistent brand presence. A lot of people I work with have amazing Instagram feeds that's maybe where they get like a lot From, it's easy to just throw up a new image on Instagram all the time, and that's very up to date. then you go to the website and it's is this the same business? What's going on here? This has a very different look and feel. The Instagram is like clearly luxury. Everything is just amazing. then the website is like just weird and outdated.

Alora 12:59

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 12:59

And so you need to have everything, have a consistent look and feel, and not have that kind of jarring effect because again, That's cutting into your trust and undermining your trust. The portfolio we talked about needs to be super consistent, same style. And I'm sure you talk about this too, but if that means showing fewer Over, over all else. I don't do copy specifically, but I will definitely advise you because it's so important. As you move up in the market, you need to get more and more specific about who you're speaking to What you wanna be known for, what makes your experience different, and yes, that's gonna come through in your images and your design, but like your copy plays a huge role in that too.

Alora 13:42

Yeah, it's just a myriad of things, but I like how you started with the strategy of but where do you wanna end up before we even get started on this project? Because. That matters more than you just saying, yep, I'm gonna be a luxury photographer. I'm just gonna hire a web designer. That's usually how my students come to me. It's I'm here 'cause I want to charge 10 K, and I'm in the middle of a rebrand and I'm like, okay, backward. Let's pull the truck backwards. We have to figure out so many other things. I have a question for you about concerning, this is like my debacle. I think I had a guest talk about this previously about how everybody thinks that luxury is just black and white branding. Do you agree with that? And do you think that's where we're headed, or do you see a resurgence as something else? Do you feel like it needs to be more, a little bit personal, brand coded? Is it okay to have color? Can you give the people permission? What are your thoughts on what luxury design looks like?

Heather Gagnon 14:42

Yeah, as you move up higher, like into Markets, I feel like, there is that cliche about okay, luxury is beige and like muted blues and, whatever. I don't know. I feel like it's more about the

Alora 14:55

Hmm.

Heather Gagnon 14:56

I guess, than like the brand colors. There's like such a confidence in the way that you present yourself the way that like your website feels like you're not trying to overexplain things or it's not coming off as like desperate or like you need things. It's just really good at painting the picture. This is what you want, this is what I do. and just from a designs perspective, like more white space, letting things breathe, not being cluttered. Yeah, I'd say it's more a vibe than like a brand and actually. I know like a lot of times people do brand and web and they won't even do your web, unless you're also doing

Alora 15:38

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 15:39

And I don't know, I am like not in that camp. Like obviously you need colors, you need fonts and things to do a website, but. I also think like you can be a luxury wedding professional with a really simple Wordmark logo, Yes. It's nice to have all of the pretty logos and the submarks and the patterns and whatnot, and it does help to elevate you, but it's it's not the end all be all thing that's holding you back.

Alora 16:08

I guess if I think about the high end photographers in the industry, it's just the work, it's not necessarily super overdone. And I think half the time it's like a signature turned into a logo or something. But yeah maybe sometimes people are overthinking it. I always highly suggest that my clients decide. Their brand based on who they want to attract, the wealthy version of themselves. So they have a great time. But also taking into account that there are a lot more vendors joining the industry, but there are also people leaving the industry. And I feel like you want to be the only option and that will be the best way to stand out. But I do love knowing that it can be simple. And you can just make the decision and then elevate as you go.

Heather Gagnon 17:01

I don't know that we've talked about the experience. It's a little like off

Alora 17:05

Yeah.

Heather Gagnon 17:06

like that's such another big Too, is like you can't deliver the same experience and just double your prices. needs to be completely different, and, but that's another thing that's reflected in your website. even how your website functions, like how you are making it easy. You're not making them hunt for things or try and figure out, who is this person, what are they about? Guiding them through the journey, making it really easy to say yes to you. That is a preview of Hey, this person is gonna be really easy to work with.

Alora 17:38

There's probably so many things that really go into it. It's not really that simple and convoluted to be like, if you do this one thing, it's a myriad of things. But I do think that the website is something that we like to focus on, especially as like photographers. We're visualists, so our visual presence is everything. Everything from Instagram, TikTok is a little bit more casual, but Instagram and website are like the visual first impressions that we can control, so I don't really have to convince. Photographers to get a rebrand. What part of the website journey makes a potential client confident in saying, this is my person. Are there certain elements to a website that make it easier for them to make a decision quickly.

Heather Gagnon 18:27

Yeah. Yeah, I know. And it's so true. There's so many things that go into a website, right? You've got like your design, there's your work, there's the copy, there's, all these things going on. I do talk a lot about like the first impression, on your website. So like when someone is landing on your website, and just like trying to, they're making a snap decision basically. Like our brains are looking at it, taking in that information and just deciding if it's even worth continuing. And so we talked about like the having clarity, like right at the beginning making it really clear like. What you do, what makes you different, all that good stuff right at the beginning. the visuals are obviously gonna come into play, especially in the photography world. Like they're judging you on your photography. They're definitely looking for someone who's in line with their style and all of that. we talked about like how ease plays into it. We haven't really talked about like connection yet too. I feel like I. Right now, for a while in the wedding industry, it's like people want to book people that they feel connected to. Especially in the photographer, you're alongside them like all day and leading up to the day and, doing the engagement session. so they, it's not like they just wanna book person who's good at photography and can take their images, but they wanna feel connection to you. So making sure your website also feels inviting and warm and human and all of that. Having photos of yourself on your website, like I feel some resistance from clients sometimes who are like, don't want pictures of themselves on their website, but it's I feel like it's so important because it helps make that connection. And the trust factor too, in like testimonials are obviously like so powerful. A lot of times I'll see people with a whole separate page of testimonials and it's this is where we collect all of our client feedback and present it in one spot. Like thinking it's really easy for couples to go there and read all the good words, but that's not really. Oh, what works best. So what I love to do with testimonials specifically is just sprinkle them in your website like also not randomly, right? So on your homepage, that's a great place for testimonials that are like setting the vibe about what it's like to work with you. Then like on the services page, you can have some testimonials and also like about. Getting the right testimonial that's like responding to what you've just presented on the page, like proving it. if you're talking about okay, I'm like this amazing photographer who you feel really at ease behind the camera and I does just feel like I'm your best friend there on your wedding day. Okay, so back that up with a testimonial from a client who said that. and then that's like an amazing way to build trust because you saying it is one thing and your client saying it is obviously another thing. And people know how important testimonials are, but just using them strategically on your website and deciding, know, not just pulling random testimonials, but choosing ones that are like relevant to what you're saying and can be used like really powerfully to back it up.

Alora 21:47

I feel like that's where the strategy comes in instead of just. Saying something just to say it like you have to back it up with a call to action or something that makes them think like I, you're like connecting all of the dots that are saying, Hey, not only did I say this, but my client says this and here's the photos of this. And so it's like constantly like making that connection and then leading them to eventually inquire. Yeah, that seems so simple when you say it, but if you don't know, then you don't know.

Heather Gagnon 22:17

Yes, totally. You hear it out loud and you're like, oh, that makes sense.

Alora 22:21

Yeah, back it up with receipts. Love this conversation. Everything about luxury websites, positioning, strategy. I learned so much about even just the portfolio page. That makes so much sense. Half the time people think portfolio pages are optional. So if somebody was to make a high-end change to their website. What is the first thing that they should do after listening to this episode, this week to uplevel their website and possibly their conversions.

Heather Gagnon 22:45

Yeah, so where I would start honestly, is just going back again to your homepage because if someone is landing on your homepage, that's where they're getting the biggest feel of you and your business. And if you're missing the mark there, the rest of your website doesn't even matter because they're not going to go there. So definitely making sure that first impression that couples are getting when they land on your site is the one that you actually want to make. So I mentioned a couple times like. Making it immediately on your site who you're for the level you're operating at. Don't make people scroll to figure it out. You want them to know right away that they're in the right place. Make sure that you have trust building elements. Throughout your site, especially on your homepage. So get some amazing testimonials on there. You can list out features. Do like little press badges. Don't hide your social proof on a completely different page because you don't know if people are even gonna see it. You want it to be part of that first impression as they're scrolling your homepage. And just like making everything feel easy and intentional. You don't need 10 different links or, all these different options in your menu. Just, make it simple. Make it clear. I really don't like cutesy names in menus. Make it super clear. Don't make people think. And do have a free resource that walks through, like in more detail about these different first impression elements and things you can check on your website help you figure out like where your website stacks up and what kind of first impression you're making.

Alora 24:22

Oh, I love that. Heather, thank you for coming outta the podcast and sharing your wealth of knowledge about positioning for a premium website. And I'll definitely have that linked in the show notes for everybody to go and do a quick audit of their website. So you have even more pressure to key up your homepage and make sure that people have enough information to make a decision on working with you before they click on anything else. I will see you guys next week. And Heather, thank you again for coming on.