Alora 0:00

welcome back to the podcast. I have a special guest with me today Co. And she's gonna be talking about systems and processes for wedding photographers. I'm really excited to dive into this and kind of figure out how you got to this place in your business and your journey. So Coley, please tell us a little bit about you and how you got started.

Colie 0:17

Ah, thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I always say my journey sounds like everybody else's, but it was also very different. So you and I were chatting before we hit record. I went to graduate school in Michigan and my husband finished his PhD before I was supposed to finish, and so we moved here for him. And then I spent a year going back and forth trying to figure out what in the world I was doing with my life, and we decided to like plant roots and do all the things in Colorado. So we bought a house, I started fertility treatments all in the same month. And then. It was, that first year here in Colorado was wild, let me tell you. But then I got pregnant and I was still teaching because I was a professor before I was a photographer and then a systems person. But April, 2010, I had a very bad incident with my pregnancy. I ended up on six weeks of bedrest in the hospital, followed by 10 weeks of bedrest at home. And so teaching was no longer an option.

Alora 1:18

Yeah.

Colie 1:19

also realized she was probably going to be my only child, and so I was like, do I really wanna go back to the classroom? The answer to that was no. So I took a two to three year break where I was home with my child. I didn't send her to preschool, but then it was time. To send her to preschool. And I was like, okay, what do I do with my life? Like I can't be a stay at home mom. I can't be a stay at home wife. I'm just not built that way. So I thought of all these things that I had never in life considered, like opening a childcare, becoming a real estate agent, but I loved photography. Like I had always loved it. And I was like, you know what? I could probably make this a business. I started my photography business the moment that my husband got a real job here in Colorado, because we never intended to stay forever. But once he finished his second postdoc, I was like, no, I don't wanna move. Find a job. So he found a job here and I immediately filed my DBA for my photography business.

Alora 2:14

Wow.

Colie 2:15

That's how I got started as an entrepreneur. I was thinking tenure track. I was gonna be a professor until I was too old to teach the college students. But becoming a photographer was really great. And then the pandemic hit like all of us. Couldn't really do my job, me more than others because the two places that I will photograph you are in your house and in a hospital. And during the pandemic, I wasn't allowed in either. So I went on a podcast episode as a CRM expert for photographers, and right after I was like, oh my gosh, this is my next course. I'm gonna make a course dato for photographers. And so that was my transition girl from college, professor to photographer, and now system strategist.

Alora 2:59

love that. Oh my gosh. That was a whirlwind of a journey and I like how you just made the decision and was like, I wanna live in Colorado. I don't wanna just be a stay at home wife. I need it's like constantly like backup plan. Backup plan, next steps. Okay. So naturally, is your personality wired just you love systems? Is it the

Colie 3:17

Is.

Alora 3:17

What is it?

Colie 3:18

It's really funny, I had a crisis last year and my bestie was like, okay, but what part of your job do you love? And I was like, I love figuring out the most efficient way for anybody to do anything. And I like to tell them how to do it and then give them feedback after, give them a grade. So it's I'm still a college professor, but I'm not teaching college students anymore. But I just, I think of everybody's problem as a puzzle, and being someone who loves statistics, loves data, I do feel like I look at it from a different perspective than a lot of the other business owners that we know, because I'm not just letting you tell me what you think the problem is. I'm getting everything from you so that we can diagnose it. And a lot of that has to deal with systems.

Alora 4:03

And what would you say is the normal pathway of like you diagnosing a systems audit? Like from, is it, do you ask them questions about the onboarding versus the offboarding? 'cause I know that seems to be like the two ways That the systems world revolves around.

Colie 4:18

Actually I like to dig into your account so when people are not quite ready to hire me, but they want to pay me for my expertise, some people will start out with an audit, and what I do is I actually pretend like I'm your client. I fill out your contact form and then I look at your information on two sides of my screen on the left. Is you as the business owner, what does it look like on the backend of your CRM? Workflows? What are your forms? And then on the other side of my screen, I have a fake Gmail account open where I am looking at every single thing that your client gets. So I'm looking at not only the assets. Do you have bad links? Are your workflows not working properly? Could your forms use a little TLC, those things. But I'm also making sure that as your client, that I'm getting the information that I need on a timely basis, and that there are no points where you would leave me hanging for five months without hearing from you.

Alora 5:14

Okay. That makes a lot of sense. So was there a moment, because I know that we're just gonna go backtrack a little bit, but was there a moment where you realized that you needed systems in your business? Or did you just think that this was your area of expertise? Like how did you get into this specifically?

Colie 5:31

so I did the thing that you should never do. Going all the way back to my first year of photography, I actually created a photography course for photographers before my first year of business was up. Laura, you are laughing at me. But here's the thing I always follow it up with. Keep in mind I was a math professor for 10 years before I did this, and so me teaching people stuff made more sense than me actually holding a camera for real. But I used to do what we would call back then lifestyle photography in people's homes. And this is 13 years ago there. There was not anybody teaching it. And so I had to figure it out all on my own because I would rather eat glass than photograph people outside in front of the mountains. Like I'm not an outdoor person by any stretch of the imagination. And so people started asking me Coley, how are you finding your in-home clients? How are you getting them booked? And I was like, oh. I can make a course about this. So I created a six week course that walked you through how to deliver the sessions, how to photograph in the best, way inside of people's houses where it could be messy, there could be shitty light, all the things. But then the back end was also, I need you to run this as a profitable, sustainable business. And by that time I had figured out, you need systems now. I didn't have a CRM then. So my systems then. Are very different than they are now. Like I thought that I had made it when I realized that you could save templates in Gmail to reuse. That was like the height of systems way back in 20 13, 20 14. But then once I figured out a CRM. All of the photographers that were coming to me for mentoring on lifestyle photography, I just naturally started teaching them how to set up their CRMs. And again, it wasn't until 2020 that I actually started offering it as a service that was outside of me mentoring you for photography.

Alora 7:23

Yes, you did make a course in the first year of business, but you're a teacher, so that makes sense. Like you didn't start off not knowing what you're talking about, like you knew what you were talking about.

Colie 7:32

But I would side eye someone if they opened a business and five months later there's no, I can be honest. I can look back and be like, wow, that was a choice.

Alora 7:40

I admire your ambitiousness. 'cause I feel like I would do the same thing. I can resonate. So when it comes to systems and onboarding, it just sounds like it's something that comes natural to you, something you love to talk about, something you love to do. Let's say a client just said yes, they're excited, they're in. What would you say is the biggest mistake? That photographers or even clients make in that first 24 to 48 hours that will kill the client experience. Is it the autoresponder email? Is it the follow up? I'm just curious.

Colie 8:11

All of it. The number one mistake that you can make is just going silent and I have a term for it. It's called the messy middle. It's the time after someone says, thank you, I wanna work with you. They paid you or they agreed to pay you. In the case of wedding photographers, thousands of dollars. And then all they got was that email that said, thank you for paying me a $2,500 deposit, or whatever your deposit is. Like you need to do more like these people have just agreed to have you as part of the biggest day of their life, and all you did was send like a square or a stripe receipt that was like, thank you for your payment. No, that is where people make the mistake now. I will say now it's, 20, 26, most people are sending a pretty decent booking confirmation, or at least they're sending one, but then. They go silent until they're ready to collect information on a questionnaire. And so I have made it like my life mission to make sure that messy middle in between when someone pays you and when you actually get them in front of your camera, that you are doing everything possible to stay in touch with them, to make sure that you are building trust, to build the relationship, to make sure that they feel taken care of. Because the worst thing that you can do after someone pays you is ignore them. Then they start questioning whether or not you were in fact worth the $10,000 that you are charging for this wedding.

Alora 9:34

Yeah, and I think that happens a lot just with any client experience. When you spend a large sum of money or even just spend money in general, it's That there's a good follow up process. So in your experience. And or what do you think is like working right now in the industry? Not the autoresponder of Hey, thanks for your email. I'll get back to you in 24 hours. get those so often and I'm always like, Ugh. what do you think would be a good follow-up email to send? Give me an example of something that people would expect

Colie 10:00

Are you talking about when they inquire about your services or after they pay you?

Alora 10:03

actually after they pay you, but let's do both.

Colie 10:06

Okay, so first let's talk about that. I call it the instant inquiry response, and it should do three things. It should, number one, let them know that you actually received their inquiry because they're excited. they're looking for the photographer of their dreams. They probably just got engaged. And if you are not. Immediately letting them know that you received their inquiry. They are gonna continue down the rabbit hole of going to find five other photographers to send an inquiry to. The second thing that it should do is it should exude your excitement for to be working with them. It should have your personality. It should sound like you. I am a big lover of gifts, which I know that you use HoneyBook also, dub Sato is what a lot of your students have. Both of those allow you to put gifts. Inside of the emails that you are sending from the CRM, and so my favorite one to send after someone, inquires about my services is I have Sarah Jessica Parker dancing in her closet

Alora 11:00

oh

Colie 11:01

that's my favorite gift. I've also recorded gifts of myself waving, jumping up and down, doing those kinds of fun things. Yeah, girl. So either one of those is an option. But then the third thing that I really want you to do is make sure that you are communicating to them when they are gonna hear from you next, whether that's in 48 hours, it's a week. If you can tell them what the next step is, if for wedding photography, like you can't just send. A booking comp, a booking form right after they inquire. 'cause you need to make sure that you're available for their wedding date. So tell them that. Tell them that you're going to review their inquiry and if you're, available for their wedding date, you're gonna send them next steps. You wanna hop on a call with them, whatever it is. The fourth little bonus thing that I will say that you should do in that specific email is you should send them something else to stay engaged. Whether that is a. A session on your blog that you love, a blog post where you are talking about what it's like to work with you on the day, or anything that's like a question that people are usually asking you that you can give them information about upfront to cut it off at the knees and not have to reiterate that information on a consultation call. Like you don't want them to send the inquiry and then. Go look at other photographers. You want to immediately give them something that they can sink their teeth into so that they stay in your world, in your orbit, reminding themselves of why they inquired with you in the first place.

Alora 12:27

Yeah, I feel like, so the biggest thing is avoiding that buyer's remorse after spending like a large sum of money of being like, Hey, you made the right decision. Click around, follow my Instagram. I something.

Colie 12:39

Yes, and that goes for both, right after they inquire and after they've paid you. The thing that I'm really telling everybody to do right now for the messy middle, between booking and the. If you are collecting like information on them and their partner is, if there are any decisions that need to be made, do you need a second shooter? Do you want video coverage? Do you want to book an extra couple's portrait session the day before, the day after the wedding? Any of those kinds of things. If you can identify what you need to communicate to them, you can start sending them Nurture emails. Related to that. And yes, that is also totally appropriate even if they've just paid you money. Because if you gave them the opportunity to book your biggest package, second shooter, you know the whole nine yards and they passed. If you continue to put information in front of them before they actually need to make a final decision on what the coverage looks like, you are increasing the opportunity that they are going to add on some of your additional services between booking and the actual wedding day.

Alora 13:41

Okay, so this is essentially like a welcome nurture sequence

Colie 13:45

Exactly,

Alora 13:46

in addition to the client experience sequence that they're going through. Can you walk me through this. Just educating them or just assure them they made the right decision? What's the theory, the strategy behind

Colie 13:58

The theory is both also, that you're making sure that you aren't ghosting them. They just agreed to pay you thousands of dollars. They shouldn't wait to hear from you five months down the road when you're finally ready to ask them about, what it is that they're doing and planning their day, and those kinds of things. You can be putting things in front of them also to help them prepare. It can also include emails. Family portraits. This is a stressful time. This is how I make sure that we, nail your family portraits. No one gets left out. I have all the information that I need to make sure that I don't make awkward groupings inform them of your expertise in this area so that when it comes time for them to finally give you the list, they know what you're going to do with it and how it's gonna make their day. Awesome.

Alora 14:42

I love this approach because I teach my students to have follow up, a series of follow up emails, but it was mostly about the experience. This is my guide. Is everything you need to know. In the meantime, we'll be checking in. We'll be doing this, but I never thought about dropping in like a weekly tip or something like that. In addition to that is really fun.

Colie 15:03

I do wanna cut in though. You said weekly tip. I wouldn't necessarily make it weekly only because some of you guys are booking people like a year in advance. 52 emails, that's a lot.

Alora 15:13

is

Colie 15:13

But it should never be two months since they've heard from you. Like I want to make it like the standard that every, couple weeks you are dropping into their email to give them important information that they can use. As they are planning their wedding. At some point you might wanna drop your favorite vendors if they haven't already booked. Everybody like those are things that you have intimate knowledge of that they would find useful. And again, they're gonna be like, oh my gosh, I totally made the right decision. Look, she helped us find our florist, or whatever else it is that they book off of your vendor list. So it just puts you. In the position to be the expert. It builds the trust and the relationship and you are seen as like the person, because the thing that makes photographers different at a wedding versus other people, I would say, except for the planner, is they end up spending so much more time with you than any other vendor. Like flowers. They might do a one hour planning purchase, whatever it is. But then the florist delivers those photos, those flowers, and you don't have to actually see them on your wedding day, versus the photographer is gonna be with you, for every moment of that day. And so anything that you can do to build a relationship now is going to help you on that day.

Alora 16:27

Yeah, I mean it's true like you spend, only do you spend anywhere from 10 to 12 to 14 hours with this photographer, but a year or so, or how often in advance because people are now booking sometimes three months in advance to three weeks in advance. But you are spending a lot of time. With this photographer. So I think it's important to warm them up just to you personally, but also I like the idea of just that constant contact and keeping you top of mind. Which leads me to my next question I feel like you already answered it, but like, how do you make sure that systems are still like warm and inviting and feel like they're not automated even though they are fully automated?

Colie 17:04

I think it's all about making sure that your emails and your communication sound like you. There used to be this, everything should sound professional and I shouldn't use any kind of vernacular. Me, no. I talk exactly like I am.

Alora 17:18

Yeah.

Colie 17:18

I'm not a wedding photographer, but I joke around with my clients. I'm like, listen, I know I cuss a lot on the internet, but don't worry, I will not cuss in front of your three-year-old. But everything else sounds like me. I'm loud. I'm that way when I'm in your house. And so it is important that when they're reading the communication, there isn't like this weird double take, whereas, oh, but I thought Coley was this, but now she wrote me this email that sounds like an accountant. And it, it doesn't sound like her. So again, using language that you would do if you were talking to them. But also gifts can go a long way. And even if you're not a gift person, weddings, families, branding, those are clients that will all appreciate a good gift, I promise.

Alora 18:01

I love a gif I if I could, it's put it in everything in my life. I send GIF all the time. I'm more of a sticker girl now. 'cause a Apples update I

Colie 18:09

Okay.

Alora 18:09

even like. like reactions. Oh my gosh. But what are other ways that you can, I like the gif. Is there other features that I don't know about on HoneyBook? Because the constant updates they're having lately that really just like surprise and delight and just kinda make the systems, I don't know, easy, fun and inviting. Can we have 'em all?

Colie 18:30

Are you using any client experience videos?

Alora 18:33

No.

Colie 18:34

Okay. So did you know that you could put a video in your smart file? That's not new, but did you know that?

Alora 18:39

N no.

Colie 18:40

Okay, so I'm currently on this kick. I'm on this kick because I feel like right now we're at a time in our lives where whenever you can be in front of them with your face, with your voice, it's important. To build those connections and specifically inside of HoneyBook and Dodo, you can actually put videos in any form that you're sending. And so I actually was just working with one of my clients. She's a family photographer, but what she is now sending, the moment that someone inquires about her services is a smart file that has a video at the top that welcomes them, says who she is, what her philosophy of photographing families is. Then it has information about. Pricing and these things. And then at the bottom is the scheduler to book the discovery call. Now think about it.

Alora 19:27

it.

Colie 19:28

If they watch this two minute video, and guys, I'm not talking about a 10 minute video where you walk 'em through your studio and no, short really does the job. 60, 60 seconds, two minutes max is good, they're already getting to hear you. Even before they get on a call with you. And so that is just really helpful to build the connection and the trust the whole way through. You could send them a video after they've booked you when they're filling out their questionnaire, you could be walking them through the things that people struggle with, the why you ask particular questions, how they're going to affect their day. And so right now I am all about what kind of short videos can you record because everybody's recording reels for Instagram anyways. Why are you wasting all of this time on strangers who have not paid you money when you could be creating videos like that and putting 'em inside the client experience? If you're not watching this video, Laura is

Alora 20:21

I was like, she got spicy.

Colie 20:23

I do. I love videos. I cannot say enough about making these videos, and so one that I really encourage a lot of people to do, but I would not encourage your audience to do it, is a sales call replacement video. Like I feel like for a wedding, there is no getting around. I must talk to you. We must vibe in order for me to photograph your wedding, but if anybody listening does any other kind of service. I am really encouraging people now to attempt a sales call replacement video, and then you can still offer up a call if it's needed, but this is getting you time back, still building the same kind of relationship, the same kind of trust in a video, answering questions that everybody seems to ask you on a call. That way, instead of talking to all 10 people. Maybe five people just need to watch a video and then they automatically book you. And then the next five people you can schedule a call with as needed. That's 50% of your discovery. Call time back in your pocket to do something else. Anything else?

Alora 21:24

Yeah I think I came. Cross that on threads and I was like, this is a

Colie 21:27

Great.

Alora 21:27

I think that was exactly my response. I'm like, this is an amazing idea because I have masterclasses or whatever, but like to be able to replace that with a more strategic like sales call video. sounds amazing.

Colie 21:40

Could do two versions. Some of my clients are doing one sales call replacement video for everybody. So in other words, if you're inquiring about a wedding, that video is the same for everyone. It's walking everybody through the same steps. But then I have other clients that take five minutes after someone has inquired about them and they make a quick. Three minute video in the moment that specifically says their name says something about their wedding oh, I love that location. I've actually, photographed multiple weddings there. I will send you a few links in this email. You can get real personal, but again, short is the key. Yeah,

Alora 22:15

Yeah. I love that and I love that you said one to two minutes because I feel like we're all multitasking,

Colie 22:20

yappers.

Alora 22:21

phone, and it's just get to the chase. Hey, how are you so happy? Okay, I need to ask this question. Do you think that video is a non-negotiable for client experience in the future? because of your rant about the reels and posting a welcome video, I've been hearing that a lot lately that it's almost like non-negotiable. If you wanna have like that, that warm, differentiating edge, what are your thoughts?

Colie 22:47

I agree. That's my thought. I don't think we're there yet, but I think that we're getting really close. If it's funny, I have been ranting about these videos for at least six years. And it is only now that it is really like picking up speed. I have episodes on my podcast from three years ago where I have talked about these same videos and yes, people were like, oh, that's cool, but like I don't feel like people were like, oh, Coley said this. Let me go record this video real fast. Whereas now. In the last three weeks, I have given three different talks where I have talked about client experience videos, and more specifically eliminating sales calls from your process, at least, as needed. And I feel like it is getting so much more traction now than it has in the past. I also feel like just. As a result of people doing more social media marketing, we as photographers are getting, more comfortable, even if it's just a phone video that we're recording, so that now we are actually open to hear about making some of these videos for our client experience. Whereas three years ago, people were like no I'm not. I'm not doing any of that. But now I feel like people are more open and in the future. Especially with all of the AI right now. Now, I am not an AI hater. I love me some ai, but right now people are taking AI and doing post after post on threads. And so when someone sees you talking, it's not ai, it's you. Unless you are for some reason making AI videos and please, Nobody do that. But they know that it's you and that you didn't just spit out all of this information, on your AI and you're just posting it. I do think that we are moving towards, video is queen, if you will, even though I thought that video was queen for quite some time. I think the rest of the industry is just coming around to it now.

Alora 24:32

We were a little slow because I think I was anti-real. So I was like, I am not showing up on video. I am not doing it. I don't want to. But now it's a non-negotiable and I was just gonna say the same thing because of ai. But then again, I don't know, I can still detect AI videos like I see those AI influencers or whatever. And I'm like, okay, I can tell the difference, but for now, I feel like if you're gonna humanize the business, I think video is key. And it just, it's nice. It's nice to see a face, it's nice to know who's gonna be there on your day or whatever you have going on in your business.

Colie 25:05

I will say your voice does a lot. And so it's funny, every time I give one of these talks, I tell people, listen, if you are someone who can't get on video, unless you are like video ready and you just can't seem to do it, it's okay. You could scroll through your work as you talk on a loom video, and then they're still getting your voice. They're seeing your art, your photos, whatever it is that you're showing them, and they can still make a connection of the personality. Behind the camera or behind the business. So even if you don't wanna be on video now, there are still ways for you to record voiceover videos, if you will, and still get like almost all the way there. Or maybe put your face on the video for 20 seconds and then you show your proposal. I understand. I like video. I like talking. I don't have to be convinced to do it, but I also don't feel like I have to be camera ready. 'cause when I would make some of these, like sales call replacement videos, sometimes I was doing it in my car, on my phone while I was waiting for my kid to come outta school. And so these are not intended to be perfection. Getting you out there as a real human. And so that's again why I'm saying like two minutes, don't make it more complicated than it has to be.

Alora 26:18

Okay. Speaking of uncomplicated, what would somebody say in this one to two minute video like. Hello. This is the photographer.

Colie 26:26

Okay, so if I was a wedding photographer in Detroit and I don't know, they were gonna book me for some fancy hotel down downtown, I would be like, Hey, I'm so excited to hear about your day. I was really loving your love story and how you met your partner at Michigan State while you guys were undergrads. Just so that I also went to grad school there, so we've got that in common. Go Spartans. I have photographed at that particular hotel, like five or six weddings. I'm gonna send you a few of them so that you can look at them. But I'm really interested in hearing about what you expect on the day and what kind of pho photography you are looking for. The next step is going to be to book a discovery call. I am sending it over in the email where you watch this video, but if you have any other questions, please let me know. If none of the day and times work, I am happy to compare calendars. I am excited to speak to you and John, so let's get the process started. I don't know how long that was, off the cuff.

Alora 27:16

guys, there was no script that just came out of her brain like that was fresh content, like

Colie 27:21

And I'm not a wedding photographer. I'm sorry that felt a little, it felt a little pushed because I don't make those videos. But normally like when someone contacts me and they're like, Hey, you know I'm due in August, my daughter was born in August. I am always trying to bring in something that we have in common. If they have given me enough information on the inquiry form. Now, if they don't, then you can just talk about what makes you different and, your documentary style and why people hire you. You can even bring in client testimonials like your client's favorite way of working with you is this, and why, This is off the cuff, but once you make these videos, you really start to think about how you can pull, parts of your business, parts of your personality, parts of your portfolio into these videos, or just the client communication in general to make sure that you are forming a connection with them based on the information that they've given you.

Alora 28:15

Oh my gosh. Holy. I just had so many ideas come to me because this essentially is the inquiry response, but it's in video and you're just summarizing like this really long three paragraph email response putting that in a video and just being like, these are the links. Book a discovery call, like that's it. That is such an easy yes. Yeah. I'm gonna schedule, I just listened to your video. I know you, I

Colie 28:36

Yes.

Alora 28:36

I know your voice, your personality, it's coming across on video. That makes sense.

Colie 28:40

I will throw one more thing in, because you're a HoneyBook user. I approve of DO and HoneyBook guys. Both of those platforms allow you to redirect someone after they have filled out your inquiry form. So if you didn't know this, on the back end of the settings for both of your contact forms, there's a little spot for a redirection. URLI have a. A page on my website where it is 90 seconds of me talking about how I will set up your Dato or HoneyBook for you. It's Hey, I'm so excited that you are interested in giving your systems a glow up. This is what normally happens. You are gonna be receiving an email soon to book a discovery call. Just so that you know this is not a hard sales call. This is me making sure that I understand your business and that my offer is gonna give you the systems that you need before we take the next step. Excited to hear from you. Talk soon. But that is, everybody gets that video. It's on a page where they get redirected. So again, like right after they hit the inquiry, they're hearing more about the process directly from me in video form. I.

Alora 29:41

Yeah. I feel like that's a double warmup for me because now I feel like even though I, fill out the form to inquire of your services now I feel very comfortable. I'm like, oh, I feel like I know her just a little bit. 'cause I've sent this video. I've seen her walk through video.

Colie 29:56

See we did not plan this to be all about video, but I feel like that's gonna be the title of this episode.

Alora 30:02

I do think because we have to get ahead of ai, we have to get ahead of, what I'm seeing is this trust recession right now is so high, but I wonder if you can get that, that first 20, 30 seconds of their attention with video that would change.

Colie 30:20

I think it would increase your booking rates. Now, I haven't gone after my clients because I'd be like, Hey, give me your data. But in my own business, like running with a proposal that is very well done, has information about me, the services, social proof, frequently asked questions, putting a video at the top that walks them through it. My booking rates were not different. Between having a discovery call and just sending the proposal, and I can tell you with certainty that's the case for me because statistically, sometimes I would flip a coin. Do I feel like getting on a discovery call? Flip a coin? Yes. Schedule one, no. Don't, my booking rates didn't change, so it's not necessarily about getting someone on a call it, that's not the end all be all. Anymore video can do so much for you to eliminate the discovery call or at least to weed people out. 'cause again, I'm not booking anybody for a 14 hour wedding day if we haven't had a conversation. But I do feel like the video aspect would help you weed out some of the people who are maybe just price shopping or aren't really convinced that you're the person, so that when you do actually schedule a discovery call, your booking rate is super high because these people have. Already been warmed up the whole way through, and they are just ready for you to send them the booking form so that they can make that payment and make it a yes.

Alora 31:39

Yeah, I do like the filtering out. If you don't have the time to watch a 62nd video, then maybe you weren't even interested in the first place

Colie 31:46

Yeah.

Alora 31:46

you're just weeding out all the shoppers So everybody listening, I hope you're gonna add video to your I don't even know what to call this, like client system, your inquiry process, because this is just the response to the inquiry. about

Colie 32:01

Oh no. I got ideas after. So after the wedding, your video series could be all about making an album and sharing videos with family and friends. Anything that you need to explain to somebody in an email can be done in a video, and it could probably be done better. I'm just gonna be honest.

Alora 32:17

Yeah okay. So those emails that you were talking about, those nurture emails, could be nurture videos, essentially,

Colie 32:23

could be. And then also when you're asking for, and you know what, this just came to mind and oh my God, I have to go tell clients to do this. When you're asking for a testimonial, we should be asking for a testimonial and video. I could not believe that. Like literally on this recording is the first time that I've ever thought about this. But yes, the email where you are saying, I loved working with you. I would love it if you could leave me a review. Oh my God, that needs to be a video.

Alora 32:49

You heard it here first guys. She learned on this podcast the best idea ever.

Colie 32:54

Oh my gosh.

Alora 32:55

That is that's so smart. And it's already fresh after. I think. do the review until a couple of days or like at least till they get their sneak peeks or till they got their full gallery. But then being like, Hey, I loved your wedding day. It would just be so nice if you could review me here, and I always have a series of buttons so that way they don't have to search your name and Google be like, here's wedding wire, here's the knot. Go crazy. Copy and paste it.

Colie 33:19

And you guys have all the places. The one thing that I encourage people to do is, hey, if you want, reviews on the Wire all those places, that's fine.

Alora 33:27

Sure.

Colie 33:27

I also encourage my clients to send out a feedback form because you can get such detailed information from them. Asking again, how did you find me? What was your favorite part of the day? Which photo from your gallery brought you to tears? You can ask them all of these questions in a form. And then what I do is at the bottom, you could put those buttons and say, and if you could you click the buttons and basically copy and paste your last question. 'cause the question that I ask at the bottom, for example, for wedding photographers, it would be your best. He's getting married, she's asking you how it was working with me, or if you would recommend me to her, what would you say? Whatever they say in that box is usually what is great to copy and paste into your reviews on all of the places.

Alora 34:13

That is such a good prompt. Instead of being like, what was your favorite experience? Or just letting them come up with the good stuff. And that's why a lot of my students will say well, you know, our reviews are kind of like not that good, or this isn't like, she does

Colie 34:26

A really plain Yes

Alora 34:29

that is great for the testimonials, we got all these videos, video ideas galore. video do you think would be best for after the in inquiry, after they have paid the retainer? Is that where you walk them through the next steps of the client experience? Maybe, or like a glance of this is what it's like working with me to keep the excitement going. Yeah

Colie 34:50

could, I would also, if you have any kind of tips video, like this is how prepare your wedding party. This is how you select your florist, your, I don't know, your DJ for any of them that haven't done it. Also it's really common for my, we specifically my wedding photographer clients, they are all doing like those planning timeline meetings. Depending on where it is, but if you wanna give them information that helps them prepare their timeline or the different portions that go into that would actually make a really good video. Because a lot of times people aren't understanding how complicated your wedding day timeline is. And I hear it from photographers all the time. Oh my God, they're gonna give me like 20 minutes for family portraits. And it's but did you educate them? Why you need more time and why you are the most important part of the timeline. And so I feel like doing that in a video in the messy middle would probably be your best ROI on making the video because it makes your life easier. And so that's a video that I would probably make.

Alora 35:52

that's a good one. If they don't have wedding planners, because We usually take care of all of those logistics. But if they don't have a wedding planner, then that makes sense to educate them on that. We usually have a wedding guide website that I tell my students. All the information is here and they can bookmark it, save it, look at it for later. And there's two examples, like with and without first look.

Colie 36:10

That's the video. If you have a wedding guide on your website,

Alora 36:14

them

Colie 36:15

just walking them through it, you are not explaining everything. You're just saying, Hey, I've linked your wedding guide in here. Just so that these are the most important parts of the guide to pay attention to. And then for example, the part where you're packing your bag and you're getting ready for your flat lays and like that part like. I would bring their attention and hey, a month before the wedding when you are planning and packing and whatever, I would revisit the wedding guide and specifically look at this section. You can basically tell them which parts of your wedding guide are most important on your timeline so that you know you are educating them on when they should return and get that additional information.

Alora 36:52

Oh my goodness. All the ideas. I hope people are like not driving while they're listening to this. Oh, they listen to it again and take

Colie 36:58

Listen to it again. That's, or pull over, because that's what I do when I listen to a good podcast. I'm like, Oh my gosh. I say this on my podcast all the time. I listen to podcasts while I drive. And a couple years ago, my kid was in two different schools, so I was literally spending like three hours a day in the car and I would be listening to podcast episodes and sometimes I will pull over and start doing something and Chloe's in the back, mom, why are we not moving? I'm like, I just need a minute. I just need to leave myself a voice note real quick. Settle down. You're not gonna be late for school. But yes, I am the queen of pulling over the car a hundred percent.

Alora 37:31

Same. I have a notebook in my glove box where I can write down really great, amazing ideas and I will also do the same. So yes, hopefully you have that going for you so that you don't miss what's going on when you listen to really good podcasts. okay, so with the offboarding process. Then just wrapping it up with a nice

Colie 37:49

Yeah.

Alora 37:50

is there anything else that you suggest, other than the testimonial requests that really keeps them excited to stick around, like those forever clients? Did you ever have that experience with wedding photographers? We have a little bit of a system, but I'm curious about yours.

Colie 38:04

What I would do is remind them of how they could display their photos, how they can share them. Coming around to the one year, this is the thing that I ask, and there are some wedding photographers that only do weddings and I'm not hating on you, but also you can make more money if you offered 'em like an anniversary shoot and all these things. So part of my off-boarding process is making sure that you're getting the three Rs, that's rave reviews. Referrals and repeat clients. Now, repeat clients only works if you do more than weddings. 'cause I personally wouldn't want repeat weddings. That's just me. Maybe you're different but not me. But the referrals is also super important. And so if you have any kind of referral incentive where you are like, Hey, if. Someone, if you send somebody my way, make sure that they're giving me your name so that I can mark it down. I send you a gift card to your favorite restaurant. Local, I like to support small businesses. That would be my choice. Or I also love for wedding photographers in particular, when you get referrals, like a nice 20 by 24 printed, framed. Picture, you know who doesn't want another photo from their wedding? And when you think about your cost of good sold compared to booking a $10,000 wedding, I'm gonna need you not to be cheap. I'm gonna need you to put the money out for a really nice photo. Exactly. So that's what I focus the offboarding process on for everybody, not just wedding photographers.

Alora 39:24

Oh, I love that. I did the same thing. 'cause I would offer them like an incentive of oh, you get discounted, like an anniversary session and then of course maternity. And they would stick around. They would stick. I would be photographing everything. I'm their forever photographers are leaving money on the table if you decide you don't wanna shoot

Colie 39:41

There you go.

Alora 39:41

anything other than weddings.

Colie 39:43

And if you are someone who legitimately only wants to do weddings, 'cause we have a lot of them here in Colorado. You know the wedding business booms here, you don't really need to shoot anything else. But if you are someone who wants to stick to weddings and nothing else. I highly recommend that you get a referral partnership going on with let's say someone like me who wants nothing to do with weddings, and all I used to shoot was newborn maternity family. If you can find a relationship like that, you can refer your amazing wedding clients to them and then hopefully they will refer people that they know are getting married to you. And it's good. It's good to have friends, y'all, friends that don't do exactly what you do.

Alora 40:22

I feel like networking is a really big part of marketing that is so low lift. If you make good friends and you guys are swapping dates that you're busy for. Great, but then also somebody who's not shooting what industry that you're in, like for example, you're both photographers, but you do family, you do weddings, like a network. I, I feel like my networking actually got me to six figures.

Colie 40:45

There you go.

Alora 40:46

we had a circle of us, a Facebook group, a group chat, and we would just send each other weddings all the time. And hey, there's a lot of cool marketing tips you can implement to keep you booked and busy for sure.

Colie 40:57

So you should come on my podcast and talk about that.

Alora 40:59

EI would love to,

Colie 41:01

There you go.

Alora 41:02

Mostly I talk about 10 K weddings and luxury positioning, but I am down to talk about anything marketing. 'cause marketing is something I love. Okay. I feel like a systems essentially is like building a relationship by education. maybe that's why you thrive, because you're a teacher by trade.

Colie 41:20

I am all about answering people's questions before they ask. And so if you can create a system that does that, you are gold. And I think the one thing that we should say before we wrap this up, because we didn't get to this, and I wanna make this clear. People come to me and they are scared of automating. They want automation, but they're really scared to use it. So I wanna say that everything that we've talked about today can be set to an approval in HoneyBook, Dodo. Whatever your CRM is, if you create the system. Which is basically like a workflow that walks them from step, from point A to point B to point C. I'm not telling you that you have to automate every single one of those steps from the get. I just wanna make sure that this is clear. You can plan your customer journey, create the assets, and basically. Design and implement workflows that will eventually automate them, but you don't have to automate them immediately, use the system manually approve things until you get comfortable. And then when you're ready, take the training wheels off and let it go. I.

Alora 42:24

Yes, spoken like a true mother. I think. One thing that's really good about this is like the rest of it can be automated. If it's like you recording a video of your wedding guide or recording your process, those things can just be, set it and forget it. But the inquiry response video, that can take a couple of seconds to a minute or two. That's not super demanding, of your time, right? Because it seems probably overwhelming to send videos. People are thinking, oh my gosh, I gotta send 20 videos in my client experience. What would the first thing that a photographer should automate if they are overwhelmed with this whole thing? Or just start with,

Colie 42:59

I wanna say it depends on where you are. I get people who are, drowning in clients

Alora 43:05

Yeah.

Colie 43:06

and that's where they need their help. And so if you have a lot of clients and you're spending a lot of time managing them, pick something in your onboarding or offboarding and that should be the first thing that you automate. Maybe it's sending your client questionnaire, maybe it's. Creating the actions to follow up with them when they haven't done the client questionnaire in a certain amount of time. That's something that people get a lot of time back on, and it's basically taking the stress away from you to have to remember to send that questionnaire and then have to remember to follow up. Now if you are not drowning in clients. But you are drowning in leads and you are dropping the ball and basically watching money walk out the door because you're not answering your leads fast enough. That is when you need to automate your inquiry process. You need to get a booking proposal that you can put in front of them to where they can book you in less than five minutes. Either one of those is gonna buy you back time in your business, and whether you choose to automate the beginning or automate, like the service and the delivery just depends on where you are in your business. So choose wisely.

Alora 44:10

With that being said, what is one thing, 'cause I know we talked about this before, that a photographer could set up this week that would just give them back their time.

Colie 44:19

I would just automate any kind of reminder that you're currently sending a payment Reminder, a reminder to book off your proposal. A reminder to fill out the client questionnaire. Reminders for your calls, anything. That you are reminding somebody to do should and can be automated in any CRM that you are using. And so those are automations that you should actually turn on immediately. Don't pass, go. Don't collect $200, just do it like tomorrow.

Alora 44:46

Yeah. Oh my goodness. This is so good. Coley. My mind is blown where this conversation went. And I think is so valuable because video is the future if you haven't learned anything, systems, automation and video. I think other than that, you'll have your Triple R system ready to go. tell the listeners how they can connect with you, where they can find you. How can we get in touch with you?

Colie 45:08

Websites, Coley james.com. I am on Threads all the time at Coley James, and you can come listen to my podcast. If you love listening to podcasts, I feel like mine's really good. It is a mix of how I talk to you today in the solo episodes. And then I have amazing guests that bring their business expertise, so that's business first Creatives.

Alora 45:26

Beautiful. Thank you so much, co. This was great. Everybody, all the links will be in this show note for you to check out and work with her so she can completely revolutionize your system. She knows what she's talking about and everybody else. I will see you in the next episode. Have a good week.