Alora 0:00

Is it on? Okay, cool.

Shayna 0:02

Is. We're here

Alora 0:03

I'm about to have cough attack right now. Oh,

Shayna 0:06

I thought you'd

Alora 0:06

I'm already dying.

Shayna 0:07

in.

Alora 0:08

Oh. Welcome back to the Opt Ambitious podcast. I have a special guest who is no stranger. She is back to talk about more high-end strategies about adding video to your wedding photography lifestyle and systems and marketing. And we had talked off script for 10 minutes about everything and nothing so wherever this conversation goes I'm not responsible. And if I mute for a long period of time, I'm having a cough attack. I've been fighting this sickness for Two weeks. Anyway, welcome to the podcast, Shayna. How's it going? I'm excited you're here.

Shayna 0:41

Hi Laura. Is this on YouTube too?

Alora 0:44

I don't know how to do that. I'm old, as I told you, off script,

Shayna 0:47

Okay. is going to be on YouTube. We might be her first YouTube video, and it's gonna be so beautiful, gorgeous, perfect. But all Laura's so hot.

Alora 0:57

please.

Shayna 0:58

that she wouldn't be on YouTube. So I hope that you're gonna click into the show notes and click the link to watch this on YouTube, because it's going to be on YouTube. But I'm so stoked you wanted to talk about this today for photographers all. Laura, thank you so much for

Alora 1:12

Oh my gosh, I'm I told her off script. I'm like, you own the video space. Nobody has gone on here and talked about adding video strategies, video marketing. It's very, it's basically been everything but that heavy on the SEO heavy on the website. So I was like, take it away, Shayna. Whole platform is yours we love that.

Shayna 1:29

Great. I'm actually take over Laura's business. Thank you so much for this podcast and for this platform, all Laura. when I joked before we hit record, by the way, you need to just slam the record button as

Alora 1:41

Literally,

Shayna 1:42

because we had so much good marketing for you in that first 10 minutes. What I said though is that I own the video space for photographers, for women who just tune

Alora 1:53

yeah. I was like, oh, we're pressing record now because this is good.

Shayna 1:57

Yeah. you don't want to listen to a techie bro with a beard and like ambient lighting in the background of their talking head, YouTube videos unboxing the most expensive beer ever seen. Then I am the hybrid photographer. Videographer for you. YouTube though, because where I want to start my new podcast. The reason I brought you here to my podcast today, Laura, is that you mentioned SEO and to me video and SEO are so completely intertwined. And I mentioned this in our last beautiful episode together, is that I started as a dumb vlogger on

Alora 2:34

Oh yeah.

Shayna 2:35

So what happened there was right around that time, Google actually bought YouTube and it was a huge deal, and YouTube was already like this amazing search engine. That's how it was functioning as a platform, which was really different for social media at Right? So you have this like huge inex library of educational and entertainment content that's, super searchable. So then it became the number two search engine in the world. And then Google, which is the number one search engine in the world, bought the number two search engine in the world. And so dumb little me, like I wasn't really thinking about searchability or about showing up for photography clients who were searching for the locations I was vlogging about, but that is exactly what ended up happening. 100% of my SEO in those early years, and even today, it's working really well, came from having hiking vlogs in areas where people were searching for brand photographer and videographers and wedding photographer and videographers. And to this day, there is an entire video search option when you Google something. And so that's my little intro for why this is important, and I would love to dig deep into anything and everything you have to ask about how this might affect photographers.

Alora 3:59

Me,

Shayna 4:00

Laura's okay,

Alora 4:01

I was like,

Shayna 4:02

fine, we can talk about it.

Alora 4:04

here we go. Yeah. Okay. So in terms of why do you feel like video is maybe a stronger SEO like marketing tactic versus just using blogging. Like I'm, we know that video warms people up to you and you can they can feel your presence and all the other great stuff, but besides the fact that Google and YouTube are now one and the same, have you noticed anything that's currently trending or what people are doing now that's really taking off when it comes to video?

Shayna 4:29

Yeah. Here's, I have a few answers to this with Laura, and first of all as a photographer who upsells, highlight films and teaches other photographers to do the same thing, those highlight films stuck on YouTube with a super searchable title, then embedded into that blog post that you worked so hard on only helped. To gain trust with Google, with ranking that blog post, so it's a symbiotic relationship. The YouTube video with the keywords added into the title embedded into your blog post just makes Google Trust that blog post all the more secondarily, then that same video shows up in ranking on video search results and. Third, when a potential client lands on that blog post and they see that long form video, then it functions very similarly to them finding you on social media in that they will experience your final product and love it and trust you enough to inquire. The second type of video, the one I'm really pushing on a strategy level is a simple talking head video that basically just lays out everything you're already saying in the blog post. I've personally been experimenting with this with ceremony sites in the national parks that I work in. and I'm pushing my students to do something very similar. the reason for that is that if we're struggling to get those blog posts ranking, then it only helps to then have a very educational video. Face to camera, just like we're doing right now on your first YouTube video that you're posting on YouTube right after this. Because not only does it serve those clients, but as you already alluded to, it gets them used to your voice and your face, and it helps them imagine themselves working with you after they hit that after they fill out the inquiry form.

Alora 6:22

So when you say a video content marketing system can you break that down for people to understand like what kinds of content, is it educational, is it personality based? Cause I know that people are gearing away from educational and going more towards what kind of content is that called? It's like personality based. It's like relatability, like I feel like the market has shifted to here's what I know to here's who I am, if that makes sense.

Shayna 6:47

Absolutely. And if you know anything about me, I'm not against showing personality by any means. What I find is that when we're over researching what the algorithm is loving, that means you're not taking action. So the thing that I like to teach with a video content marketing strategy is actually a two pronged approach. The first pronged being long Which fits in really nicely with your blog content. So these are super searchable YouTube videos that we then embed in your blog posts to me. Those videos serve you forever. So that's your long term strategy that helps you show up for the people who are actually searching for you. I take a mini version of that approach into how I treat social media content marketing for video and for those, the way I break it down is really simple, Laura. So there's three different types of videos you can be making for YouTube shorts or for Instagram reels, or TikTok or Facebook reels if you're into that. But the first one would be extremely similar to what I'm suggesting you create for YouTube, which is educational. Educational is oftentimes extremely searchable because you're teaching them something that they are probably typing into search on the social media platforms or on Google, and that typically ends up being face to camera. And it ends up being a green screen of your face over your work, which does double duty of showing your work and also your expertise. These searchable captions and these searchable hooks not only help you get in front of the people who might hire you on social media but it helps you rank in Google once again because now there's a short form video section on Google search result. The second type of short form video is the kind that photographers are obsessed with. It's called aesthetic. This is for the photographers who just find a piece of music and they put their behind the scenes plus their final product to the beat of that trending music. It is aesthetic. It's beautiful, it's gorgeous. It's very popular for photographers on Instagram. It's the easiest thing way for photographers to lean into video marketing. caveat to that is I still highly recommend you making those captions extremely searchable. And then the third type of video content marketing is what I call trending, which is you look at the trends that are going on social media and you're aiming for more reach or more virality. is my lease. Favorite kind of content to make, and I wanted to mention that because I don't actually have a value that I've assigned to each different kind of I have my favorite, which is educational. I have what I believe to be most photographer's favorite, And I have what I believe everyone thinks works best, which is

Alora 9:37

Yep.

Shayna 9:37

which I would disagree with. Yes, with all of that said. Virality is great if you have your systems in place that can deal with any From it. What we actually want is intent. We want people who want to hire us to find us. It doesn't really matter if a million people see a piece of my content, if none of them inquire, but if someone is actively searching for what it is that I do, which is multi-day destination photo and video. In the places I want to do it, which is mostly Glacier National Park, that is a person who is much more likely to buy from me. And so a piece of content might feel like it's failing if it gets two to seven to a hundred views, but it's not failing if it makes you thousands of dollars.

Alora 10:26

Oh, Shayna. Oh my gosh. You said it because trending, you're just like, woo. I feel like trending is great. It's a good ego boost right? But when it comes down to it, like your clients are probably the silent lurkers that are looking for you, answering their questions or objections with your content, and then they reach out and book, I agree with you 100%. That our content either should be educating them on our process, showing them who we are and giving them a reason to work with us specifically because of something I actually recorded yesterday was like the wedding industry hot takes. There is a lot going on. There's a lot of content, there's a lot of people in the industry and everybody's saying the same thing. So my question to you Shayna, is like, how can we use like these similar pillars, if you will? but without looking like everybody else and saying what everybody else is saying, which is probably why you agree with me, that trending is fun, but it doesn't necessarily work. But it's an ego boost that makes us feel better.

Shayna 11:22

Absolutely. And I want the caveat to that to be because I'm learning this, the more and more I go through my coaching program is that sometimes I will say something that is an opinion. And people think I'm right. And to me, that's a problem because I, never ever want to make any decisions based off of what other people are saying anecdotally we want to test, we want a healthy ecosystem of testing all of these different types of content and seeing what converts into leads. And only then can we make a decision on what we're pushing really hard. So I don't want anyone to hear me say that I hate trending content and think it doesn't work. I actually have a student who loves social media way more than I do, who's willing to put out six to 10 trending or trial reels in a day to test what's working. And she finally, it's like phishing. She finally hit one, got 4 million views on a video, and ended up like booking out for the next two months and can't handle all the inquiries she's getting. So anecdotally, I know that this works lifestyle wise, I know I'm probably not going to find the time to care that much about short form content, that many things at once. So we have to know ourselves, we have to know our lifestyle, but we also have to be willing to test and gather data and not just form opinions without actually trying things. To your point, aor, about trying to separate ourselves from the crowd and to implement all these things so that we sound different. If we're super focused in on self, if we're super cognizant about how we're coming across or how we're sounding, or how good we are, or how bad our content is, or if we're being cringe, Then we're not focused on serving the potential client because it's not actually about standing out or coming up with a personal brand for ourselves so that we seem really authentic if we're actually authentic. Then we're switching our focus to serving And when we serve the potential client really well, that's inherently very searchable because we're speaking to things that they are asking anyway.

Alora 13:31

I was actually listening to you and I said, oh my gosh, I gotta ask her about this. What do you feel about people that are really hesitant because they have this fear of being seen, being perceived, and they only rely on their website. That's, I feel like what we're dealing with at least I'm dealing with my students. A lot of 'em are like, I don't wanna post anywhere. I just want them to come to me. Do you agree with me that you think that philosophy is now dead? It's impossible. To just rely on one platform.

Shayna 14:01

I think you're either going to take advantage of free organic media, or you're going to pay to get eyes

Alora 14:07

Yeah.

Shayna 14:07

and you decide what you're okay with.

Alora 14:09

Yeah. I say you have two options. You either pay or play and playing is free and paying is expensive. And while I think it's fun to play with ads, like I invest in ads when I launch my programs and stuff, I can't just rely on that because. Trends change with ads too. Trends change with social media too. Like you have to market to get leads.

Shayna 14:29

Yeah. the long and

Alora 14:32

I,

Shayna 14:32

of it aor that you're alluding to and that you're trying to help your students do it the easier route, right? Because you care about them and you want them to ex succeed faster. the long and short of it that we all have to remember is the business is a game of trade-offs. Like you're going to pick what you're willing to do and you have to be okay with your decisions, and you're actually going to win faster if you try those things faster and make those decisions faster. Without ruminating over what could have been or Out on, or killing yourself over what actually doesn't fit with your personality or your life to, there's a natural progression of business where you're really hungry at the beginning and you're willing to, work really hard and be really stupid because you don't know any better. And that's the most beautiful phase of business that has the most room for growth. The more everyone researches and forms opinions based off of basically no data the less you end up growing, that's where the plateaus happen. So if someone decides they're lying in the stand sand where they're like, I am willing to not have as much success as I can get because I'm not willing to do this, they better pick an alternative pretty quick and see what they are willing to do to find the success they want, or their business is just going to be stagnant. with that said, I have no judgment if you're not willing to show up on social media, but you're closing off an area where people might find you. If the whole point of the top of a funnel is to get eyeballs and to get attention, and you're closing off a way for people to find you, you better find another one that is going to get eyeballs on your website that will lead to your inquiry form. I'm fine with that decision. If you're making other decisions, that will lead to the

Alora 16:17

Yeah, as long as you're finding something that works best for you so that you can show up, so that you can get results.

Shayna 16:22

Absolutely. Because not to depress our listeners of my new podcast now that I've taken over the podcast, but it's like it grow up. I think I said this last time,

Alora 16:34

Yeah.

Shayna 16:34

it's like. if you have drawn a line in the sand and you don't wanna do this thing and then you're not willing to get eyeballs and you're not willing to put in the time, 'cause long form content takes time to become

Alora 16:46

Yeah.

Shayna 16:47

then what are we doing here? Go work for someone else. What are we doing? Are you just gonna complain?

Alora 16:52

you either get rich or make someone else rich.

Shayna 16:55

Yeah. And also my guess, and this was a podcast episode about YouTube, but

Alora 17:00

sorry.

Shayna 17:01

also it's fine if you are happier being an employee. There's nothing wrong with that.

Alora 17:08

You

Shayna 17:09

That's

Alora 17:09

just need to know.

Shayna 17:10

That was the end of

Alora 17:11

Yeah, I'm just trying to dive into the mindset blocks that may come up, because it's almost like you have no choice anymore. It used to be different, like at 10 years ago, couples would just inquire on your website, you had to do nothing. Position it great, be great. It happens. No, now every, there's so many decisions to make. There's so much content, there's so much marketing,

Shayna 17:35

and so just

Alora 17:35

yeah.

Shayna 17:36

to cut through that there's so many people whose websites look amazing. Their content's so aesthetic, it looks great. I'm not hiring anybody who isn't clear about how they can help me, isn't confident that they're the best person for me, and it's not extremely clear about what I'm getting when I pay them. So just focus on that. Focus on the customer. Be so clear. Show up when people are searching You cannot lose. You

Alora 18:02

Yeah.

Shayna 18:03

So don't worry just like I'm not a social media queen and I book out every year. Like to me, this is so obvious, You don't need tens of thousands of followers. You don't need a ton of engagement. You just need to show up for the people who are literally like holding their money out in front of them looking for someone to give it

Alora 18:20

Yeah. Oh my gosh, it's so good. Don't think, just do. And keep going. You don't ever like you said, that one girl posted so many trial reels. Finally, one tick off. That's just, that's the game you have to play.

Shayna 18:33

Yeah. And guess what? She hates blogging Okay, whatever. I can't really yell at you 'cause you're doing better at social media than

Alora 18:39

Oh, find your thing.

Shayna 18:41

everything.

Alora 18:42

love that. Yeah. So if you hate one thing, then play with the others and see what works. But I definitely agree that you need both short term and long term for the highs and lows of life to carry you, but short form, it pays off. It does

Shayna 18:57

and we have to go with the tide of how people are consuming media. And so it all circles back to what people know. I love video for growing a photo business. And they think I don't wanna be a videographer. you can and should still leverage video to sell your photo offers. And I am extremely gung-ho about that and have been since 2017.

Alora 19:24

Oh, she'd been talking about this for 10 years. Y'all.

Shayna 19:26

no. I'm so annoying. You're not gonna get away from me.

Alora 19:29

You're like, I'm actually really tired. Shut up and pay attention.

Shayna 19:33

Everyone do it. But also that's why I'm not scared to go on podcasts and say literally every single thing that I do and teach because it's a lot of work. And if you're not willing to do it, then you're not going to do it. And the people that do it will win. Open up YouTube right now, type in your city and put photographer at the end and see if, anyone comes up. And if anyone does, then it's probably like one to five people. can beat five people with

Alora 19:59

Okay, let's switch over to YouTube because that's why we're here. There was a 20 minute intro to lead to the YouTube for photographers. So tell me how YouTube is working for photographers right now. What is going on in the industry? Because I, before YouTube was for educators, so it's oh, I'm not educating other photographers, but this is now for photographers getting clients. Tell me more. What is, what's going on?

Shayna 20:25

Oh, I am so excited about this aor. I actually first tried this a few years ago and talk about messy action. I'm obsessed with just like trying something so what I did is I was actually having trouble ranking for how to elope in Montana. I was like, I know whenever I put one of my wedding films in a blog post, it ranks like within a day or two. every educator's telling me this doesn't work, but I'm seeing it working. So what I did was I sat down at my desk and I just set up a camera. I had no one to help me, and I didn't realize the exposure was way off. So this video's so ugly. It looks like I filmed it in heaven, like it's crazy. And what I did was I basically just regurgitated my blog post of how to elope in Montana to the camera. And I posted that on YouTube, embedded it into my blog post. And I've been ranking for that search term between one, the one to three ranked position on Google ever since. And that's been

Alora 21:22

What.

Shayna 21:23

And so life got really busy. Like I was like out there trying to get rich with education. And then this year I was like I wanna be a great example for my students. I hate like telling them to do things I'm not actively doing or trying with my photo video business. So I was like, I'm gonna make a series of all the ceremony spots in Glacier National Park and just see what happens. I'm not like too concerned about the results. Which is always the most beautiful experiments when you're not like, too emotionally tied to it. And I loved this experiment because it's such a specific search term. There's no way these videos are going viral and there's no way there's already videos ranking for them on YouTube. So it's a great example. Tests to do, all of these blog posts going out for these ceremony spots. These ceremony guides have ranked within two days on Google, which is really exciting. I'm getting results so fast from this. And so what I did is in one day I batched five ceremony spots, and that sounds really scary, but all I did was film the intro face, talking to camera, basically a, Hey, so you're, you landed on this video because you're searching how to elope at Big Bend in Glacier National Park. Big Bend is one of my favorite places because of this, and this. Super easy to get to. So in this video, like you can expect, like every single question you have to be answered. Then the camera pans away to a canvas slideshow where I just put like the headings from my blog post and I just read the blog post. And then I also stuck in a screen recording in all of these videos, the same screen recording where I just showed how to get your permit for Glacier National Park. And then at the end it's just the link down below is to my website. Like inquire there. I can't wait to chat about your elopement and. So there are the, these five videos at the time of this podcast recording exists now where it actually did not take me very long to make them. They don't look that great. I don't even think I set up my light for them. I can't be bothered to care when I'm recording my own content. And that's the, that's actually the theme of this. But also I always like. I always get a little rebellious when making my own content, when I'm trying to make a point to my photography, like education clients where I'm like, see how this is? And it's working. So there's a little of that too. And so these individual YouTube videos where basically I'm once again just regurgitating the blog posts, serving my clients really well, and asking questions that are very searchable, answering questions that are very searchable, embedded those videos into these blog posts. I believe every single one of those blog posts is

Alora 23:55

Wow.

Shayna 23:55

But the YouTube video's ranked number one, like basically instantly it's the perfect combination of something that potential clients are searching for that isn't on YouTube yet. if we're literally just tackling location based search and answering questions about that location. For people who want to buy what it is we do. That's the basic formula. You've got it. Just do that. You will rank. And with that said, it's very easy for me to talk for, I've been in business for 10 years. My account is so old that you might be thinking Shea, yours are gonna rank because Google trusts your domain. That's totally fair. But now I have a few photographers in my program who have started to implement this, who are seeing similar results with ranking. Now conversion's another issue that we have to tackle when we get to it, but just the One of showing up when people are searching for you. I have one Scotland based photographer ranked for how to elope Edinburgh basically, instantly, basically a day later. And her blog posts are not climbing as fast as those YouTube videos are ranking. I have a how to elope on Big Island Hawaii from one of my students. YouTube video ranked. We're working on getting the blog post up there. you're struggling with blogging, I'm not saying quit blogging. We are making these strategies work together, and I am in awe of the results. I'm so excited about this, and I hope you all would consider trying

Alora 25:22

Yeah, you're basically just doubling up on long form and not leaving a blog by itself or using Pinterest to drive traffic. You're using YouTube

Shayna 25:30

Exactly.

Alora 25:31

to the blog, and while they're at the blog, They're almost being convinced from watching the video. It's almost like you're appealing to all the learner styles, which something like when it comes to, there's people who like to see it. There's people who like to read it, and people like to hear it. All those things are tackled from that blog post, so nobody's clicking away. They're like, oh, I don't wanna read, but I can watch the video. That makes so much sense.

Shayna 25:53

absolutely.

Alora 25:54

Why has nobody done this before? This is such a good idea.

Shayna 25:57

Thank you so much. I invented YouTube.

Alora 26:00

I as the CEO of YouTube and all of the strategies behind it

Shayna 26:05

Yeah. I like the idea of the CEO of YouTube being this dumb and like living in a

Alora 26:09

that,

Shayna 26:09

the woods, just convincing photographers to get on YouTube. But yes, I know. From what you teach your students about positioning and about pricing it's just another package of answering, asking the right questions and answering the right questions. If we can do this at every step of the process, that's sales call becomes so.

Alora 26:31

Oh yeah. Oh, for sure. They've you've already eased their fears, answered their questions. They have a feeling for who you are. They're just kinda like, how can I book? Do you have my data available? Which is the hot and ready clients that everybody wants.

Shayna 26:43

Absolutely. Imagine being a client and searching how to elope in Yosemite. You find this YouTube video and maybe the objection is, oh my God, no one's gonna, I would never listen to a 20 minute YouTube video, but you already trust the person who's willing Make one. You click over to Instagram, 30 to 92nd short form videos about the same topic. You see a full blog post about the same topic on Pinterest. They're redirecting to posts about the same topic. It's a full ecosystem proving that you're the expert in what it is they want to buy. By the time a person like that who finds you like that is filling out an inquiry form, they're already convinced that you're the person for them.

Alora 27:23

Yeah. So do you feel like video has a specific, a unique leverage effect versus what photographers have done before? Just relying on Instagram, just relying on blog, do you feel like there's something special about combining the two? And just playing around. 'cause you just played around, didn't you? Just to see like, how'd you even come up with this?

Shayna 27:44

I came up with it be here's the real truth is that I my business as a

Alora 27:49

That's right.

Shayna 27:50

So I was a vlogger who was Search and I was very primed before video even exploded as the main thing people were consuming on the internet to understand that showing up in search with a video makes people trust you. So as the years went on and every single platform started prioritizing video, I understood that combining a video with extreme searchability will convert into clients without virality and without needing a ton of followers. You can all go to my photo video page right now. I think it's just my name, Shayna Lloyd. And you're gonna be like, this is a person who books out every year and doesn't really have to worry about going hard on marketing. And the answer is yes, because people are searching for what it is I do. So I believe that the lever with video is that it's how people are consuming right now. First of all, like that should be number one in today's day and age. it's extremely searchable because not only are people actively trying to consume video on every platform, but the biggest search engine in the world owns the second biggest search engine in the world. And not only prioritizes YouTube videos and video search results, but now the short form video category is pulling up tiktoks and Instagrams and Facebook reels. Can see these market trends. And think like a business owner, or we can look at what every photographer is doing, which is leaning hard on aesthetics and just follow what everyone's doing because it feels safe. I am 100% of the time going to be thinking like an operator and a business owner over like a photographer, videographer. I love the art, but the art isn't what makes the money because everyone's work is good. Hot take.

Alora 29:33

I was like, I don't think we for turned.

Shayna 29:36

I don't know what it is about your podcast. I just, all Laura, like she laughs at when I say it, I just become more and more of a monster through

Alora 29:45

It is just like you're getting it, you're getting it raw and reel, because I'm a hot taste.

Shayna 29:48

I'm like, oh, you like that? What about this one?

Alora 29:51

But here's the thing. I love a spicy gem and I just want the no fluff. Tell me the truth. That's why I'm here. I'm here to learn and. I think there's a lot to, there's a lot that we've covered here, but I feel like now it's almost inevitable you have to show up on video in some kind of capacity, even if it's like just B roll with text, which is me. I am learning how to do a talking head reel and it is driving me nuts to watch myself like, I don't know how, it takes me forever, but you know what? I'm doing it. This is the year. That I'm showing up and posting, I'm cringe. That was what I was gonna talk about earlier. How do you feel about just being cringey doing it anyway and then just looking at the data and seeing where it goes? You seem like a data over drama kind of girly.

Shayna 30:33

Absolutely. I'm sick of myself. I've had two kids since I've started being on video, like I've gained 80 pounds. I have an acne like hormonal issue thing going on. I speak so slowly, it drives me freaking nuts. I

Alora 30:48

You sound fine.

Shayna 30:50

See? Okay. So I'm glad we did that. I'm glad we had that moment. I love turning it to eye language. you just coached yourself.

Alora 30:57

me.

Shayna 30:58

Yeah, I just complained about everything. I hate about myself. And you acted like I was being dumb. So what does that say about your worries about showing up? That's why it has to be on YouTube. You have to look at all's face.

Alora 31:09

She got me. She got me.

Shayna 31:12

To the listeners of my new podcast that I took over today, what I actually wanna say is it goes back to something I mentioned earlier, which is one of my big journaling focuses this year is just about ego versus

Alora 31:25

Hmm.

Shayna 31:26

Because imposter syndrome asks, am I good enough? Whereas self-respect asks like, how can I help my people? So if that is your focus, if your focus is how can I best get this information out and help people and honestly try to do it in high quantity at first because you'll just get better with practice. The things that are annoying about talking head content, you just naturally get better by practicing like the pauses and the like feeling like weird talking. You can only get over that by practicing. That's basic communication. The thing about cringe is like you're worried about yourself. That's all ego. The thing about serving your clients in a way that actually helps is you're not thinking about yourself thing I'll say. When I'm doing a brand shoot and I'm really feeling like my subject, usually a business owner is feeling really self-conscious. The thing I always say that gets them to laugh is that what are you trying to date your clients? What are these photos for? Are you trying to like, make money? Are you trying to attract them? What's happening here? What's the goal? the goal to be desirable or is the goal to help your people and to make I don't think the photographers who I've helped scale actually care about my weight issues or my acne issues, honestly. And if they care about my voice, they just put me on two times speed, which I recommend anyway.

Alora 32:43

I think you sound fine. I feel like I talk too fast, but I can't slow it down, so I'm like, oh like every time my mom's you talk so fast, alo. I was like, I am thinking at two x speed all the time. I think I'm talking fine, like super regularly.

Shayna 32:57

I attract fast talking extroverts because it's like my natural opposite.

Alora 33:02

Which is so funny 'cause I feel like I'm an ambivert, like I am socially extroverted, but I need at least three days by myself or I cannot.

Shayna 33:12

Yep.

Alora 33:12

I refuse.

Shayna 33:14

I'm obsessed with you. We do just need to live

Alora 33:17

We need a meet.

Shayna 33:18

that's where I've come away from. I

Alora 33:20

She's like, where do you live? I'm coming. I was like, oh, we can meet halfway. Like I'm, oh my gosh. Okay. Shayna. I don't even know. Do we have enough time for you to talk about the systems too?

Shayna 33:29

Oh, I'm around Delora. Yeah, we're recording my

Alora 33:32

I know. I was like, do we have enough time?

Shayna 33:34

you better do some throat spray or something. Get ready because you're doing all the

Alora 33:39

No, literally you're gonna be like, question and just sit there and I'm gonna be like

Shayna 33:42

Please keep this

Alora 33:43

fighting for my life. It's gonna be in, I feel like every time we get on a podcast together, I was like, just leave in all the side talk conversation.

Shayna 33:51

please. so yeah, I have time. And by the way, listener slash YouTube viewer, 'cause this is going on YouTube a Laura's form is very professional and she's what are three topics that we might wanna discuss? I thought these were three separate podcast episodes. Now Laura's alright, let's talk about the third podcast episode idea.

Alora 34:10

It's though we're coming on 40 minutes.

Shayna 34:14

No, I'm in. Let's do this.

Alora 34:16

So when it comes to systems, and it's, I think you have, you have a hot take about this. You came to be with a hot take that successful systems are boring. And I'm like, wait a minute, because I'm a systems girly, but I'm like A systems girly because I'm type B. I secretly, I wanna be okay, maybe I'm actually type C, type a good day, type B on a other day. But like, why would you say that successful systems are boring?

Shayna 34:42

Yeah, I think we all need to grow up. of all, I think have this idea that because we're in a creative business, everything should feel really passionate and hot and creative all the time, and that if we're doing something consistently for a few weeks or a few months. That it's time to like hop on the next thing or try a new thing. Whereas like actual consistency and successful implementing of a system might not feel that exciting. It might feel really boring actually. And your tendency to jump from a thing to thing and practice to practice and not successfully implement your systems well could be the thing that is stalling your growth. I have one of my favorite writers, Elizabeth Gilbert. When she talks about creative practice and the work of creativity, she always, one thing I love that she says I'm paraphrasing is that bored, tired and lonely are all

Alora 35:38

Hmm.

Shayna 35:39

So like to engage in these practices, to engage in our creative work, we have to sit in boredom. Sometimes we have to sit in being tired. Sometimes we have to be okay with being lonely sometimes. And to be able to realize that those things are all okay. And for me it's, we don't need to self-medicate with sugar and carbs for some other people. We don't need to self-medicate with socializing and people all the time. We don't need to self-medicate with alcohol or drugs. And for a lot of creative business owners, we don't need to self-medicate those feelings with trying something new and getting scatterbrained with our systems. So when I say successful systems are boring. I want you to have the maturity and the discipline to engage in these practices for your business, in your long form content creation system to become searchable in your video content marketing system to be visible again and again to keep trying and testing and to stay consistent, even if you're starting to get antsy because you don't think you're getting the results that you quote unquote, deserve yet.

Alora 36:46

So for somebody who is used to always being constantly stimulated. 'cause it's kinda like what it is. It's oh, Understimulated, I need to be doing something. I need to be busy. It's almost like feeding into the use of the hustle culture and like always being busy, always having something to do when the systems are boring. You're like, what am I supposed to be doing right now? Which, I did a poll in my program because I'm like, all right, what's everybody struggling with right now? And they're like, nobody knows what to do. But when somebody is okay, what does a successful, boring life look like for a CEO?

Shayna 37:17

That's beautiful. Okay. pointing to something. Like that antsiness that I talked That I'm seeing with my photographers as well. And to me, a successful boring CEO life is mastery of these systems that we've defined because when they're running really well. what it, if we define like what does success in this area mean to me, it's leads that convert into sales, right? When you get enough of those sales. you've owned that system long enough, then success is being able Off to somebody else and outsource them. The one that's really popular for photographers is Once you have figured out your Pinterest system enough that it's leading to the desired result, then you can justify hiring out your Pinterest. Fair enough. And boring CEO life opens the door to focus on different things. I get it. A lot of us are passionate about our work and our jobs, and we want it to feel exciting every day. So let those systems become boring so you can find the next thing that you can operate at a high level. I,

Alora 38:20

Oh, that's so good. Oh my gosh. Okay. So what would be an example of a boring, successful system to you?

Shayna 38:27

The first, obviously I, language wise is in my education business. I use Asana, which is basically a glorified checklist, and I put everything I do for certain things into Asana so that when I hire it out, I can assign it to the person I hire it to. My big thing right now is I hired the most beautiful, gorgeous, amazing podcast producer in the world. And the system is tight. it's very similar to my blogging system for my photo video business, but I know exactly where this person is at every step of my process because I did the process myself for five years. So it's from ideating and outlining to recording, which I own, obviously to show notes, to blog posts, to getting it out on the podcast platforms to getting it on YouTube to that YouTube description, to the social media graphics, to piecing it out into reels to reel captions like we know who owns what step of the process. And that part of my business, which is the main lead generator, is so dialed in that now I can focus more on my students and scaling their business where that might connect with a photographer. is very similar because that's my long form system for the business I'm currently trying to build. For the business you're trying to build. It's the YouTube to the blog post, to the Pinterest, to the social

Alora 39:49

I also have another question to that point of like, how long do you suggest that somebody does something on their own? Before you say, okay, outsource that.

Shayna 39:59

Earn the right to outsource. Spending money, which I actually love. I think it relates to everything. I used to do profit Like this insane person system of having

Alora 40:09

Yeah.

Shayna 40:09

accounts. The money comes into one bank account, and then percentage wise you put in into the others for other things. I've since condensed that down to my money comes into my income account, 50% goes into operating expenses, 50% goes into owner's compensation. Then the owner's comp account pays me my salary every single month. of that money that goes into my personal account that is emotionally tied to running my family and running our personal lives. The business money in the operating expenses account that is tied to running my business, there's no emotion behind it. Only data. And so if I making a decision with that operating expenses, money that is meant to grow the amount of money in that account, then the question I have to ask myself is. Paying this person to run this system going to at least pay for itself because that's enough for me in some situations. In other situations, you have to have the foresight to think, is this money I'm spending on advertising at least going to double by me spending it? And that's sometimes a scary decision for some business owners because the answer is you don't

Alora 41:21

Yeah.

Shayna 41:22

you try for a couple months. and some people are very risk adverse, which makes it harder to grow a business, which is why I always start with the distinction that sounds irrelevant to make sure that, you're paying yourself every month so that money can be your emotional money. Your business money is just for growing the business. So that decision is based on. Is this system going to make the business money and can this person carry out the system? We hire fast. We fire fast.

Alora 41:51

Oh, that's so good. Shayna. Honestly, I have no further questions because you've pretty much talked about it all. Even being a CEO, even when to outsource. How to outsource.

Shayna 42:01

gosh. I know it's 40. It's been 49 minutes of basically me regurgitating everything I know. I don't know what I'll say when I

Alora 42:09

It's the masterclass guys, honestly. But I do think that everything here is really good. I hope everybody was taking notes and I'm really excited because you're gonna come guest in my program and talking about video and YouTube and all of these great things, so I'm just so excited,

Shayna 42:25

absolutely a Laura. Here's my outro because it's my

Alora 42:30

yes.

Shayna 42:31

So what alo iss going to do that I'm so excited for you guys to Google maybe a week after this podcast is she, this is going to be posted on her new YouTube channel with a searchable title and embedded in whatever show notes that you do. Yeah,

Alora 42:46

I will have to make a new YouTube account. Like I have no idea. I know nothing about YouTube.

Shayna 42:52

which is really exciting when we have to implement the things that we're teaching. But you have a Google account associated with your

Alora 43:00

Yeah.

Shayna 43:01

It'll be a, yeah. Your YouTube channel's under the same account.

Alora 43:04

Oh,

Shayna 43:05

Yeah. No,

Alora 43:05

no, she's

Shayna 43:06

You're gonna love

Alora 43:06

gonna, I'll be her first case study so anybody.

Shayna 43:09

Yeah. Awesome. And so this is gonna be so fun and we're then going to track by just googling the keywords for this podcast, which is probably YouTube for photographers or something like that, or how photographers can rank on YouTube. And we'll just keep tracking to see if that video ranks on video search results. Oh, Laura's like cross jayna off the

Alora 43:31

I was like, God, she's gonna make me show up. No, it's the push that I never asked for that I needed, and you guys have seen it and heard it here first. Shaa.

Shayna 43:43

So

Alora 43:43

was so fun. How can people get in touch with you, work with you? Any links for us? How can we find you?

Shayna 43:50

Here's what's so funny. I actually rebranded since the last

Alora 43:53

Yes.

Shayna 43:53

this podcast. My business partner pieced out of the education world, we're obsessed with her. We love her. But now I am hybrid

Alora 44:01

Yay.

Shayna 44:01

so that is my podcast. It's all about scaling a photo video business. But if you're just into photo and you're barely video curious, you'll still get a ton of value from the podcast. You can DM me at hybrid Hangout on Instagram, and I also have a freebie for you. The video upsell starter kit. It's the five steps you're going to take to scale your photo business with video ev everywhere from choosing your medium, which can be at the camera you're already using for photos, camcorder, super eight iPhone, I don't really care what you're using. I just know that video is the lever that is going to help you scale your photo business this year. So go snag the video upsell starter kit.

Alora 44:41

Thank you Shayna and everybody else. Check out the links. They will be in the show notes and I will see you on Shayna's podcast here pretty soon. Have a good week.